Comments on: Climate Progress Dehypes Hydrogen Again

By: Theodore

Theodore — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 19:29:42 +0000

There is little need for this debate. Let a hundred flowers bloom. All options should be cultivated simultaneously.

By: tm

tm — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:07:00 +0000

>Lastly – if hydrogen is such an efficient fuel – why don’t we use it to >generate electricity in power stations? Simply because it would use more >energy to produce it than it would actually generate. (simple >thermodynamics again)

It will always take more energy to make fuel than you get out of it. Your analogy is flawed. You also forget that the current electricity grid cannot withstand an influx of plug-in/EVs. With just a few vehicles you’re looking at many megawatts of electricity assuming 220V “quick charge” that everyone clamors about. Unfortunately, there is not one silver bullet and different transportation goals will rely on different technologies.

I tried to find where it takes 75% of the energy to compress hydrogen. Have a source?

By: Michael Hirsh

Michael Hirsh — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 13:25:51 +0000

I have just read Shelly Carson’s post twice and I cannot understand the conclusion. Both Battery cars and Hydrogen cars run on electricity via electric motors. Hydrogen cells are Hi-tech electricity generators that can be stored on-board a vehicle.
Yes you can make hydrogen at home or anywhere- but in order to practically keep it in a vehicle it has to be compressed and transported. This process costs energy. Yes you can produce energy from solar sources – but you can do the same for the energy to recharge a battery – and you don’t have to compress it or transport it ( except by existing grid systems) so there is less energy loss.
Yes batteries are not ideal – but all of your objections about them are voided by battery swapping technologies ( e.g. Project Better Place )
BUT most importantly you can’t avoid the thermodynamics of the system
Use energy to produce, compress and store hydrogen – then use that hydrogen to produce energy to run a car – each process runs at less than 100% efficiency – and by the time you add it all up you’ve lost about 75% of the energy (don’t believe me – look it up)
With electricity to charge a battery you lose only about 20% in transfer across the grid and storage and discharge losses in a battery – much less if you produce the energy at home from solar sources as you are proposing to do to manufacture hydrogen.

Therefore,no matter how efficient the hydrogen cell is – it has to be about 3-4 times less efficient in energy use as a battery powered vehicle – and nothing will change this proportion unless more efficient batteries are developed and then the argument will tip even more strongly towards batteries.

The energy capacity of hydrogen – per gram – is irrelevant because the volume of that gram is so great (hydrogen is the least dense of all gasses) that by the time you have compressed it and stored it and transported it you have lost all of that advantage.

Lastly – if hydrogen is such an efficient fuel – why don’t we use it to generate electricity in power stations? Simply because it would use more energy to produce it than it would actually generate. (simple thermodynamics again)

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