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	<title>Comments on: More of NASA&#8217;s James Hansen on Old King Coal</title>
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/07/24/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Lou Grinzo</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/07/24/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/#comment-4811</link>
		<author>Lou Grinzo</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:49:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2007/07/24/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/#comment-4811</guid>
					<description>The most troubling aspect of this situation is the difficulty of finding the economic and political capital to convert enough of the 1,522 existing coal plants in the US to use CCS.

Even passing a law that requires new coal plants to be acceptably "clean" will be extremely difficult; addressing the existing plants will be a nightmare.

I've been predicting for some time now we're likely to see a considerable stretch of time where countries claim to have emitted only X tons of CO2, collectively, and the scientists find through measurements that the actual emissions were clearly much larger.  How the world addresses such circumstances will be one of the nastier problems in coming years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most troubling aspect of this situation is the difficulty of finding the economic and political capital to convert enough of the 1,522 existing coal plants in the US to use CCS.</p>
<p>Even passing a law that requires new coal plants to be acceptably &#8220;clean&#8221; will be extremely difficult; addressing the existing plants will be a nightmare.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been predicting for some time now we&#8217;re likely to see a considerable stretch of time where countries claim to have emitted only X tons of CO2, collectively, and the scientists find through measurements that the actual emissions were clearly much larger.  How the world addresses such circumstances will be one of the nastier problems in coming years.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/07/24/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/#comment-4813</link>
		<author>Steve</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2007/07/24/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/#comment-4813</guid>
					<description>This type of theoretical rambling by Mr. Hansen, though interesting, cannot be taken out of context.  It inappropriately has the tendency to take pressure off fossil fuel C02 emissions and methane emissions from agriculture.

By treating different C02 molecules differently -- depending upon their origin -- it plays into the hands of the so-called Delayers, as distinguished from the Denyers.  It lets the US, Russia, and the Middle Eastern countries point the blame at China and India on the argument that if they do nothing, then we're doomed anyway.

As I understand the issue from Joe's book and some very recent alarming studies on rates of glacier/snow cap/ice sheet melting being faster than expected and accelerating, and on permafrost thawing creating a feedback loop which may get beyond our control to influence, then immediate, cooperative action needs to be taken on every front available to us in order to buy time to implement clean coal-burning technologies and all other conversions to technology and consumer/industrial practices which will slow down greenhouse gas build-up.

My son has my copy of Joe's book at the moment, but weren't there also some serious challenges involved in so-called "sequestration" of CO2?

I'll say it again:  Here and elsewhere (especially in American consumer habits and voting patterns), this debate needs to go beyond theoretical musings and talk about the question of imminency.  Do we fully understand the tipping points and feedback loops at work?  Are the public and policy-makers fully informed on these issues.  And as Lou says, can we realistically expect and afford a "clean coal strategy" to be fully implemented within the time we have to work with?

This does not mean we do not put on a full-court press on the dirty coal issue, but everyone needs to be engaged in some way in making a difference.  You tell my relatively sophisticated neighbor that it's up to China and India to clean up their act, and for the US electrical companies just to be smarter when they build their next power plant, and you just ensured yourself that this becomes a second priority issue in his or her life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This type of theoretical rambling by Mr. Hansen, though interesting, cannot be taken out of context.  It inappropriately has the tendency to take pressure off fossil fuel C02 emissions and methane emissions from agriculture.</p>
<p>By treating different C02 molecules differently &#8212; depending upon their origin &#8212; it plays into the hands of the so-called Delayers, as distinguished from the Denyers.  It lets the US, Russia, and the Middle Eastern countries point the blame at China and India on the argument that if they do nothing, then we&#8217;re doomed anyway.</p>
<p>As I understand the issue from Joe&#8217;s book and some very recent alarming studies on rates of glacier/snow cap/ice sheet melting being faster than expected and accelerating, and on permafrost thawing creating a feedback loop which may get beyond our control to influence, then immediate, cooperative action needs to be taken on every front available to us in order to buy time to implement clean coal-burning technologies and all other conversions to technology and consumer/industrial practices which will slow down greenhouse gas build-up.</p>
<p>My son has my copy of Joe&#8217;s book at the moment, but weren&#8217;t there also some serious challenges involved in so-called &#8220;sequestration&#8221; of CO2?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll say it again:  Here and elsewhere (especially in American consumer habits and voting patterns), this debate needs to go beyond theoretical musings and talk about the question of imminency.  Do we fully understand the tipping points and feedback loops at work?  Are the public and policy-makers fully informed on these issues.  And as Lou says, can we realistically expect and afford a &#8220;clean coal strategy&#8221; to be fully implemented within the time we have to work with?</p>
<p>This does not mean we do not put on a full-court press on the dirty coal issue, but everyone needs to be engaged in some way in making a difference.  You tell my relatively sophisticated neighbor that it&#8217;s up to China and India to clean up their act, and for the US electrical companies just to be smarter when they build their next power plant, and you just ensured yourself that this becomes a second priority issue in his or her life.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/07/24/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/#comment-4814</link>
		<author>Steve</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2007/07/24/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/#comment-4814</guid>
					<description>To clarify, when I said "fossil fuel CO2 emissions" a moment ago, I meant to refer to oil-originating molecules, as it were... such as that from burning motor fuel and other petroleum-derived fuels.  The transportation sector.  The everyday motorist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To clarify, when I said &#8220;fossil fuel CO2 emissions&#8221; a moment ago, I meant to refer to oil-originating molecules, as it were&#8230; such as that from burning motor fuel and other petroleum-derived fuels.  The transportation sector.  The everyday motorist.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/07/24/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/#comment-4815</link>
		<author>Cliff</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 17:21:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2007/07/24/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/#comment-4815</guid>
					<description>Hansen's approach is interesting and informative, but I'm with Steve here. We can all buy in to a Best Case Scenario where humanity survives this crisis, but by the skin of its teeth. As long as the major governments and industry leaders change their ways, we can continue on with life as normal. The lights will stay on. Of course, few people want to hear Worst Case Scenarios because they demand that we change our habits and demand - DEMAND - that governments and industry change theirs, too.

But still I'm interested to read the next installments of Hansen's message. As a scientist, he knows of what he speaks. It's just that the question has gone beyond science and is now a politico-economic one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hansen&#8217;s approach is interesting and informative, but I&#8217;m with Steve here. We can all buy in to a Best Case Scenario where humanity survives this crisis, but by the skin of its teeth. As long as the major governments and industry leaders change their ways, we can continue on with life as normal. The lights will stay on. Of course, few people want to hear Worst Case Scenarios because they demand that we change our habits and demand - DEMAND - that governments and industry change theirs, too.</p>
<p>But still I&#8217;m interested to read the next installments of Hansen&#8217;s message. As a scientist, he knows of what he speaks. It&#8217;s just that the question has gone beyond science and is now a politico-economic one.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/07/24/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/#comment-4817</link>
		<author>Joe</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2007/07/24/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/#comment-4817</guid>
					<description>Remember, too, that Hansen has published more scientific works arguing for urgent action than any other major climate scientist (just search "Hansen" on this website for about 5 of them) -- these email ramblings are hardly meant to be rigorous, but I still felt they should be shared with a wider audience.  One thing I admire about Hansen is that he is taken the trouble to educate himself on energy issues -- most climate scientists are far too reticent to talk about things outside of their narrow area of expertise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember, too, that Hansen has published more scientific works arguing for urgent action than any other major climate scientist (just search &#8220;Hansen&#8221; on this website for about 5 of them) &#8212; these email ramblings are hardly meant to be rigorous, but I still felt they should be shared with a wider audience.  One thing I admire about Hansen is that he is taken the trouble to educate himself on energy issues &#8212; most climate scientists are far too reticent to talk about things outside of their narrow area of expertise.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/07/24/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/#comment-4819</link>
		<author>Steve</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 04:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2007/07/24/more-of-nasas-james-hansen-on-old-king-coal/#comment-4819</guid>
					<description>And having searched this website -- thank you, Joe -- we had it right here, underscoring my initial reaction that these comments should not be taken out of context.  Here are comments and the context which Hansen himself has provided:

http://climateprogress.org/2007/07/06/james-hansen-on-stopping-new-coal-plants/

I'm certainly aware of Mr. Hansen's very important contributions, and I don't intend in any way to criticize his work.  But I am concerned as to how certain comments, taken out of context, can be misused by Delayers while also neglecting the realpolitik of this situation.

China and India need indications that Americans individually and their government are also prepared to act aggressively and make sacrifices... And, even then, these emerging industrial powerhouses still may elevate short-term economic objectives over "our" urgings to reduce dirty-coal energy.

As an aside, America needs to get ready for a new reality with China and Japan holding a very large percentage of our federal, corporate, and consumer debt instruments, as yet again the dollar hits another new low... As they may soon be saying, "And who again are you telling us what to do exactly?"

It's great to protest the building of new coal-burning power plants, but not to the neglect of reducing and postponing, even if unable to forever prevent, the release of oil-originating CO2.  Most importantly, people engaged in some activity tend to want to learn more and do more, cultivating the political awareness and motivation to challenge these other events far removed from their everyday lives... such as the regulatory authorization to build US, let alone foreign, dirty coal-burning facilities.

Finally, returning to Hansen's point, this comes back to a very elementary concept which, you might be surprised to know, many people don't understand:  In the global warming context, electrical energy conservation should be as habit-forming an activity as cutting back on gasoline consumption.  It is actually easier to do most of the time, and word needs to get out on how it helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And having searched this website &#8212; thank you, Joe &#8212; we had it right here, underscoring my initial reaction that these comments should not be taken out of context.  Here are comments and the context which Hansen himself has provided:</p>
<p><a href="http://climateprogress.org/2007/07/06/james-hansen-on-stopping-new-coal-plants/" rel="nofollow">http://climateprogress.org/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2007/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>07/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>06/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>james-hansen-on-stopping-new-coal-plants/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span></a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m certainly aware of Mr. Hansen&#8217;s very important contributions, and I don&#8217;t intend in any way to criticize his work.  But I am concerned as to how certain comments, taken out of context, can be misused by Delayers while also neglecting the realpolitik of this situation.</p>
<p>China and India need indications that Americans individually and their government are also prepared to act aggressively and make sacrifices&#8230; And, even then, these emerging industrial powerhouses still may elevate short-term economic objectives over &#8220;our&#8221; urgings to reduce dirty-coal energy.</p>
<p>As an aside, America needs to get ready for a new reality with China and Japan holding a very large percentage of our federal, corporate, and consumer debt instruments, as yet again the dollar hits another new low&#8230; As they may soon be saying, &#8220;And who again are you telling us what to do exactly?&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s great to protest the building of new coal-burning power plants, but not to the neglect of reducing and postponing, even if unable to forever prevent, the release of oil-originating CO2.  Most importantly, people engaged in some activity tend to want to learn more and do more, cultivating the political awareness and motivation to challenge these other events far removed from their everyday lives&#8230; such as the regulatory authorization to build US, let alone foreign, dirty coal-burning facilities.</p>
<p>Finally, returning to Hansen&#8217;s point, this comes back to a very elementary concept which, you might be surprised to know, many people don&#8217;t understand:  In the global warming context, electrical energy conservation should be as habit-forming an activity as cutting back on gasoline consumption.  It is actually easier to do most of the time, and word needs to get out on how it helps.</p>
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