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	<title>Comments on: Who are the Denyers and Court Jesters?</title>
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	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-7304</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>fun search test!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fun search test!</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Denyer</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5927</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Denyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 11:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5927</guid>
		<description>As a Denyer (by name and not nature) I suppose I really ought to lodge an objection to the use (invention?) of the term - on pedantic grounds, if no other..  Small &quot;D&quot; please- if it must be used..... 

But seriously; from a scientifically illiterate layman&#039;s point of this whole subject is really difficult to get to grips with, because so much comes down to &quot;who do you trust&quot;.
 
Personally, I think we neeed to alter our behaviour re. fossil fuels anyway, global warming or not; but here in the UK our government is doing the case for action against global warning no good by concentrating on financial penalties (&quot;Green&quot; taxes) - which people cynically see, rightly or wrongly, as just another way of raising revenue - rather than taking drastic, and potentially seriously unpopular, action to actually force cuts in emissions.  The problem is here that, so long as government is only tackling emissions by nibbling cash away from people, rather than engaging in the Draconian policies necessary to change behaviour to a meaningful degree, the man in the street will, quite simply, not take this issue seriously... 
Maybe democracy and the kind of radical changes needed just don&#039;t mix; in which case where do we go then...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Denyer (by name and not nature) I suppose I really ought to lodge an objection to the use (invention?) of the term &#8211; on pedantic grounds, if no other..  Small &#8220;D&#8221; please- if it must be used&#8230;.. </p>
<p>But seriously; from a scientifically illiterate layman&#8217;s point of this whole subject is really difficult to get to grips with, because so much comes down to &#8220;who do you trust&#8221;.</p>
<p>Personally, I think we neeed to alter our behaviour re. fossil fuels anyway, global warming or not; but here in the UK our government is doing the case for action against global warning no good by concentrating on financial penalties (&#8221;Green&#8221; taxes) &#8211; which people cynically see, rightly or wrongly, as just another way of raising revenue &#8211; rather than taking drastic, and potentially seriously unpopular, action to actually force cuts in emissions.  The problem is here that, so long as government is only tackling emissions by nibbling cash away from people, rather than engaging in the Draconian policies necessary to change behaviour to a meaningful degree, the man in the street will, quite simply, not take this issue seriously&#8230;<br />
Maybe democracy and the kind of radical changes needed just don&#8217;t mix; in which case where do we go then&#8230;?</p>
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		<title>By: IANVS</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5551</link>
		<dc:creator>IANVS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 07:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5551</guid>
		<description>Joe,

The Doubters as you call them do a great disservice to America and this planet.  Whether or not cognizant of their manipulation, they perform most of the grunt work for the Deniers &amp; Delayers.  They are ubiquitous on the web, in the blogosphere, in magazines and op-eds, etc. enshrouding the general public in a milieu of disinformation and confusion.  That and their apparent sincerity make them a most effective tool of the fossil fuel interests.  They should be given their due and called out at every turn.  Otherwise, their loud voice becomes the one most often heard and remembered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,</p>
<p>The Doubters as you call them do a great disservice to America and this planet.  Whether or not cognizant of their manipulation, they perform most of the grunt work for the Deniers &amp; Delayers.  They are ubiquitous on the web, in the blogosphere, in magazines and op-eds, etc. enshrouding the general public in a milieu of disinformation and confusion.  That and their apparent sincerity make them a most effective tool of the fossil fuel interests.  They should be given their due and called out at every turn.  Otherwise, their loud voice becomes the one most often heard and remembered.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5496</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 11:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5496</guid>
		<description>I just found your website...
I&#039;ve looked at only a small portion and plan to read more despite the fact I don&#039;t agree with your viewpoint.
I just wonder why your spelling and grammer is so poor.
It is properly spelled denier...Denyer is not a word...how do you expect to be taken seriously?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just found your website&#8230;<br />
I&#8217;ve looked at only a small portion and plan to read more despite the fact I don&#8217;t agree with your viewpoint.<br />
I just wonder why your spelling and grammer is so poor.<br />
It is properly spelled denier&#8230;Denyer is not a word&#8230;how do you expect to be taken seriously?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5243</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5243</guid>
		<description>Thanks.  I will be rebutting this shortly also, but Annan is one of the world&#039;s expert on this subject and his post was great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks.  I will be rebutting this shortly also, but Annan is one of the world&#8217;s expert on this subject and his post was great.</p>
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		<title>By: tidal</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5242</link>
		<dc:creator>tidal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5242</guid>
		<description>Regarding the Schwartz paper that has surfaced in this thread of comments, James Annan has posted a rebuttal here: http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/2007/08/schwartz-sensitivity-estimate.html

Excerpt: &quot;Via email, I hear that this paper from Stephen Schwartz is making a bit of a splash in the delusionosphere. In it, he purports to show that climate sensitivity is only about 1.1C, with rather small uncertainty bounds of +-0.5C.

Usually, I am happy to let RealClimate debunk the septic dross that still infects the media. In fact, since I have teased them about their zeal in the past, it may seem slightly hypocritical of me to bother with this. However, this specific paper is particularly close to my own field of research, and the author is also rather unusual in that he seems to be a respected atmospheric scientist with generally rather mainstream views on climate science (although perhaps a bit critical of the IPCC here). However, his background is in aerosols, which suggests that he may have stumbled out of his field without quite realising what he is getting himself into.

Anyway, without further ado, on to the mistakes:&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the Schwartz paper that has surfaced in this thread of comments, James Annan has posted a rebuttal here: <a href="http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/2007/08/schwartz-sensitivity-estimate.html" rel="nofollow">http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2007/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>08/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>schwartz-sensitivity-estimate.html</a></p>
<p>Excerpt: &#8220;Via email, I hear that this paper from Stephen Schwartz is making a bit of a splash in the delusionosphere. In it, he purports to show that climate sensitivity is only about 1.1C, with rather small uncertainty bounds of +-0.5C.</p>
<p>Usually, I am happy to let RealClimate debunk the septic dross that still infects the media. In fact, since I have teased them about their zeal in the past, it may seem slightly hypocritical of me to bother with this. However, this specific paper is particularly close to my own field of research, and the author is also rather unusual in that he seems to be a respected atmospheric scientist with generally rather mainstream views on climate science (although perhaps a bit critical of the IPCC here). However, his background is in aerosols, which suggests that he may have stumbled out of his field without quite realising what he is getting himself into.</p>
<p>Anyway, without further ado, on to the mistakes:&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: DWPittelli</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5239</link>
		<dc:creator>DWPittelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 02:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5239</guid>
		<description>John:
Pascal&#039;s wager was about accepting a dogmatic religion. How apt.

Pascal never considered the possibility that being a Catholic (or any other single religion) might make one as likely or more likely to suffer damnation. Which shows a certain provincialism or narrow-mindedness on his part, especially since the Protestant Reformation was then more than a century old, and other cultures and religions were well known to educated Europeans of his time.

Likewise, your premise that essentially ending the consumption of fossil fuels is comparatively risk-free shows a certain provincialism. At the least, it would require a massive reduction in global living standards, even if we were to undertake an enormous buildup of nuclear plants (which source of amelioration I would support), and catastrophic results in the absence of the nuclear solution. Such costs (and some risks from nuclear proliferation and waste) would of course be a certainty, whereas your hell of positive-feedback global warming remains a conjecture unsupported by data even if we accept IPCC reconstructions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John:<br />
Pascal&#8217;s wager was about accepting a dogmatic religion. How apt.</p>
<p>Pascal never considered the possibility that being a Catholic (or any other single religion) might make one as likely or more likely to suffer damnation. Which shows a certain provincialism or narrow-mindedness on his part, especially since the Protestant Reformation was then more than a century old, and other cultures and religions were well known to educated Europeans of his time.</p>
<p>Likewise, your premise that essentially ending the consumption of fossil fuels is comparatively risk-free shows a certain provincialism. At the least, it would require a massive reduction in global living standards, even if we were to undertake an enormous buildup of nuclear plants (which source of amelioration I would support), and catastrophic results in the absence of the nuclear solution. Such costs (and some risks from nuclear proliferation and waste) would of course be a certainty, whereas your hell of positive-feedback global warming remains a conjecture unsupported by data even if we accept IPCC reconstructions.</p>
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		<title>By: DWPittelli</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5238</link>
		<dc:creator>DWPittelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 02:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5238</guid>
		<description>For me, you are a definitely a professional Alarmist if you work to obfuscate the climate change issue having taken money from John Kerry&#039;s wife.

Of course, the problems I have with Hansen&#039;s intemperate behavior aren&#039;t really due to his status as a professional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, you are a definitely a professional Alarmist if you work to obfuscate the climate change issue having taken money from John Kerry&#8217;s wife.</p>
<p>Of course, the problems I have with Hansen&#8217;s intemperate behavior aren&#8217;t really due to his status as a professional.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5235</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 15:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5235</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;ve made an important distinction, here  Joe-- but I don&#039;t fully agree with it, and here&#039;s why:

Pascal&#039;s wager lays out the &quot;rules&quot; for how to act in the face of uncertainty -- if the uncertain outcome is cataclysmic (such as going to hell, whether from global warming or atheism) then a precautionary approach is warranted ... For the most part, people adhere to this framework.  In fact, Bush, Rove et. al.  took advantage of this tendency in the run-up to Iraq.

Now, I&#039;d wager big money that most of the denyers were all for invading Iraq because &quot;we couldn&#039;t afford to let a mushroom cloud be the first sign.&quot;

And yet, here we are, facing a potentially far worse outcome with orders of magnitude more proof that the danger is real and imminent, and suddenly, preemption isn&#039;t prudent.

For that reason, I believe even the amateur denyer is replacing reason with ideology, and ignoring fact.  In my book, that puts them squarely in the same camp as the Exxon-funded pros.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;ve made an important distinction, here  Joe&#8211; but I don&#8217;t fully agree with it, and here&#8217;s why:</p>
<p>Pascal&#8217;s wager lays out the &#8220;rules&#8221; for how to act in the face of uncertainty &#8212; if the uncertain outcome is cataclysmic (such as going to hell, whether from global warming or atheism) then a precautionary approach is warranted &#8230; For the most part, people adhere to this framework.  In fact, Bush, Rove et. al.  took advantage of this tendency in the run-up to Iraq.</p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;d wager big money that most of the denyers were all for invading Iraq because &#8220;we couldn&#8217;t afford to let a mushroom cloud be the first sign.&#8221;</p>
<p>And yet, here we are, facing a potentially far worse outcome with orders of magnitude more proof that the danger is real and imminent, and suddenly, preemption isn&#8217;t prudent.</p>
<p>For that reason, I believe even the amateur denyer is replacing reason with ideology, and ignoring fact.  In my book, that puts them squarely in the same camp as the Exxon-funded pros.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5234</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 14:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/18/who-are-the-denyers-and-court-jesters/#comment-5234</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a link to a short article concerning the ethical questions arising from scientific mistakes you may want to read -

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/08/nasa_flacks_for_global_warming.html

Also, if we are recommending movies [I agree &#039;Who Killed The Electric Car?&#039; is a must-see], another good one to watch again is &#039;Wag The Dog&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a link to a short article concerning the ethical questions arising from scientific mistakes you may want to read -</p>
<p><a href="http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/08/nasa_flacks_for_global_warming.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.americanthinker.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2007/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>08/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>nasa_flacks_for_global_warming.html</a></p>
<p>Also, if we are recommending movies [I agree 'Who Killed The Electric Car?' is a must-see], another good one to watch again is &#8216;Wag The Dog&#8217;.</p>
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