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	<title>Comments on: Rule Four of Offsets: No Enhanced Oil Recovery</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 02:38:10 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Matt Oil recovery</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-30614</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Oil recovery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-30614</guid>
		<description>we need to fully explore all EOR if we are gonna ever become self sustaining.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we need to fully explore all EOR if we are gonna ever become self sustaining.</p>
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		<title>By: don hennick</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-8414</link>
		<dc:creator>don hennick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 06:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-8414</guid>
		<description>Lets give it a name
I say Global Carbon March
Inter our exhaust


I don’t see any mention on your web site of Pyrolysis or Agrichar . Do you have projects in the planning stage on the carbon sequestration front?

The more you learn about this ancient technique of soil restoration the more you&#039;ll see how elegant this solution can be for carbon sequestration, for us all. 
Imagine putting the carbon tax funds into the hands of millions of peasant farmers all around the world, building their soil and their net worth at the same time. Please search &quot;AGRICHAR&quot; “BIOCHAR” or
 “TERRA PRETA”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets give it a name<br />
I say Global Carbon March<br />
Inter our exhaust</p>
<p>I don’t see any mention on your web site of Pyrolysis or Agrichar . Do you have projects in the planning stage on the carbon sequestration front?</p>
<p>The more you learn about this ancient technique of soil restoration the more you&#8217;ll see how elegant this solution can be for carbon sequestration, for us all.<br />
Imagine putting the carbon tax funds into the hands of millions of peasant farmers all around the world, building their soil and their net worth at the same time. Please search &#8220;AGRICHAR&#8221; “BIOCHAR” or<br />
 “TERRA PRETA”</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Townsend</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5358</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Townsend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5358</guid>
		<description>Joe, I did not realize you authored &quot;Cool Companies...&quot;.  I read it years ago and thought it was well conceived and delivered.  That book was one of the first volleys that described in practical terms what companies could do.  Great job.  Bill</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, I did not realize you authored &#8220;Cool Companies&#8230;&#8221;.  I read it years ago and thought it was well conceived and delivered.  That book was one of the first volleys that described in practical terms what companies could do.  Great job.  Bill</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5325</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5325</guid>
		<description>If CCS (carbon capture and storage) is going to be a reality, then the technical feasibility needs to be assessed...the petroleum industry&#039;s involvement in this is important. I would agree that from a simple offsetting &#039;equation&#039;, secondary/tertiary recovery via C02 injection does not do the job....but, on the other hand, from realistic and practical point of view, we need to figure out the best way to do this. It&#039;s far more complicated than just saying &#039;we should inject C02&#039;. Period.

The idiotic (and, in my view, mythical) polarization of this issue is deconstructive...and both end-member &#039;sides&#039; are to blame. It&#039;s time to work collectively...and the petroleum industry and infrastructure is part of that. I hope people wake up from this &#039;us vs. them&#039; absolutism soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If CCS (carbon capture and storage) is going to be a reality, then the technical feasibility needs to be assessed&#8230;the petroleum industry&#8217;s involvement in this is important. I would agree that from a simple offsetting &#8216;equation&#8217;, secondary/tertiary recovery via C02 injection does not do the job&#8230;.but, on the other hand, from realistic and practical point of view, we need to figure out the best way to do this. It&#8217;s far more complicated than just saying &#8216;we should inject C02&#8242;. Period.</p>
<p>The idiotic (and, in my view, mythical) polarization of this issue is deconstructive&#8230;and both end-member &#8217;sides&#8217; are to blame. It&#8217;s time to work collectively&#8230;and the petroleum industry and infrastructure is part of that. I hope people wake up from this &#8216;us vs. them&#8217; absolutism soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5312</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5312</guid>
		<description>Joe: &quot;I am an energy analyst and technologist.&quot;

I&#039;ve read your bio here http://www.buildings.com/articles/detail.aspx?contentID=1766

Could you point to some real, tangible solutions that you have invented, or helped develop , as a M.I.T. Ph.D. in physics ?

Something beyond words... words and more empty words.
Don&#039;t answer, just think about it. Aren&#039;t your talents wasted on being a propagandist ?

By the way - are you also an expert in hydrogen, as it says there ? Where has hydrogen disappeared nowadays ? The way of those abandoned wind farms in California ?

&quot;but they have no solutions of their own to offer.&quot;
Neither have you. Don&#039;t dream. You&#039;re just emitting more and more hot air... there is no substance to all your solutions, just feel-good empty, illusions.

A remark: when blackouts happen, as is normal in many countries (mainly in the third world) people buy home generators and produce pollution three time greater than power stations.

&quot;We don’t need HIGHER production of oil&quot;
That&#039;s green ideology in a nutshell. 
The demand for energy is rising, we DO need HIGHER production of oil, there is no other energy available, and capping oil production means - no energy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe: &#8220;I am an energy analyst and technologist.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve read your bio here <a href="http://www.buildings.com/articles/detail.aspx?contentID=1766" rel="nofollow">http://www.buildings.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>articles/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>detail.aspx?contentID=1766</a></p>
<p>Could you point to some real, tangible solutions that you have invented, or helped develop , as a M.I.T. Ph.D. in physics ?</p>
<p>Something beyond words&#8230; words and more empty words.<br />
Don&#8217;t answer, just think about it. Aren&#8217;t your talents wasted on being a propagandist ?</p>
<p>By the way &#8211; are you also an expert in hydrogen, as it says there ? Where has hydrogen disappeared nowadays ? The way of those abandoned wind farms in California ?</p>
<p>&#8220;but they have no solutions of their own to offer.&#8221;<br />
Neither have you. Don&#8217;t dream. You&#8217;re just emitting more and more hot air&#8230; there is no substance to all your solutions, just feel-good empty, illusions.</p>
<p>A remark: when blackouts happen, as is normal in many countries (mainly in the third world) people buy home generators and produce pollution three time greater than power stations.</p>
<p>&#8220;We don’t need HIGHER production of oil&#8221;<br />
That&#8217;s green ideology in a nutshell.<br />
The demand for energy is rising, we DO need HIGHER production of oil, there is no other energy available, and capping oil production means &#8211; no energy.</p>
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		<title>By: Earl Killian</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5311</link>
		<dc:creator>Earl Killian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5311</guid>
		<description>What I don&#039;t understand about posters like Jacob is that they are quick to complain when someone proposes solutions to a extremely serious problem, but they have no solutions of their own to offer.  In effect by only complaining they propose doing nothing (i.e. BAU), which would be a disaster.  Not solving the greenhouse gas pollution problem we have is *not* an option.  BAU is about as wise as standing on the train tracks when the locomotive is bearing down on you because you think there is a chance there might be poison oak at the side of the tracks.  First, it might not be poison oak at all, but yummy blackberries instead.  Second, you can take actions to protect yourself from poison oak, if that is what is there.  Third, poison oak rash is a lot less of a worry than being flattened by a locomotive.  I don&#039;t understand what they are missing.

Also, this constant griping that the government cannot solve problems is hard to understand.  Under Nixon&#039;s we got the National Environmental Policy Act (1969), EPA (1970), Clean Air Act (1970), Federal Water Pollution Control Act Amendments of 1972 (commonly referred to as the Clean Water Act), Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (1972), and Endangered Species Act (1973).  Under Ford we got  the Safe Drinking Water Act (1974) and Toxic Substances Control Act (1976).  Reagan signed the Montreal Protocol in 1987 and it was ratified in 1988.  George Bush Sr. signed the Clean Air Act amendments of 1990 that regulated more pollutants and implemented a cap-and-trade system that succeeded beyond all expectations. All of these solved real problems and we&#039;re better off because of them.  (I wish some had been more effective than they were, but they were definitely an improvement over BAU at the time they were signed.)  Joe could no doubt tell the Clinton legacy much better than I.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I don&#8217;t understand about posters like Jacob is that they are quick to complain when someone proposes solutions to a extremely serious problem, but they have no solutions of their own to offer.  In effect by only complaining they propose doing nothing (i.e. BAU), which would be a disaster.  Not solving the greenhouse gas pollution problem we have is *not* an option.  BAU is about as wise as standing on the train tracks when the locomotive is bearing down on you because you think there is a chance there might be poison oak at the side of the tracks.  First, it might not be poison oak at all, but yummy blackberries instead.  Second, you can take actions to protect yourself from poison oak, if that is what is there.  Third, poison oak rash is a lot less of a worry than being flattened by a locomotive.  I don&#8217;t understand what they are missing.</p>
<p>Also, this constant griping that the government cannot solve problems is hard to understand.  Under Nixon&#8217;s we got the National Environmental Policy Act (1969), EPA (1970), Clean Air Act (1970), Federal Water Pollution Control Act Amendments of 1972 (commonly referred to as the Clean Water Act), Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (1972), and Endangered Species Act (1973).  Under Ford we got  the Safe Drinking Water Act (1974) and Toxic Substances Control Act (1976).  Reagan signed the Montreal Protocol in 1987 and it was ratified in 1988.  George Bush Sr. signed the Clean Air Act amendments of 1990 that regulated more pollutants and implemented a cap-and-trade system that succeeded beyond all expectations. All of these solved real problems and we&#8217;re better off because of them.  (I wish some had been more effective than they were, but they were definitely an improvement over BAU at the time they were signed.)  Joe could no doubt tell the Clinton legacy much better than I.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5307</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5307</guid>
		<description>You are right, jcwinnie.  People are stuck in BAU.

The key premise of this blog -- as underscored in the three recent posts on how scientists are underestimating climate change -- is that we need to reduce CO2 emissions 60% to 80% by 2050, which means we need to reduce fossil fuel consumption by that amount.  It won&#039;t be easy.  It particularly won&#039;t be easy if we start subsidizing enhanced oil recovery by calling it carbon offsets.

We don&#039;t need HIGHER production of oil, and certainly not from EOR.  Offsets are a voluntary donation to displace one&#039;s CO2 emissions, and thus should meet very high environmental standards.  They can&#039;t solve the climate problem, but they can serve a valuable purpose of funneling money toward jumpstarting the transition to a clean energy economy.  EOR is not part of a clean energy economy and does not -- and should not -- be &quot;jumpstarted.&quot;

So Paul and Bill -- I can&#039;t agree with you.  I would like to see a comprehensive apples-to-apples life-cycle analysis comparing CO2 EOR to regular oil, though.

Jacob -- I am not a &quot;green,&quot; I am an energy analyst and technologist.  I don&#039;t hate oil and coal -- I just hate what their emissions of greenhouse gases are doing to this planet.  I don&#039;t want to hinder production of oil, I just don&#039;t wants to subsidize even more production of it.

As for coal, you missed the whole point of my post.  The only way to save coal in the long-term is through carbon capture and storage, which we have not seriously begun pursuing.

I think jcwinnie&#039;s point is well taken.  People are stuck in BAU, even those who are concerned about global warming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right, jcwinnie.  People are stuck in BAU.</p>
<p>The key premise of this blog &#8212; as underscored in the three recent posts on how scientists are underestimating climate change &#8212; is that we need to reduce CO2 emissions 60% to 80% by 2050, which means we need to reduce fossil fuel consumption by that amount.  It won&#8217;t be easy.  It particularly won&#8217;t be easy if we start subsidizing enhanced oil recovery by calling it carbon offsets.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t need HIGHER production of oil, and certainly not from EOR.  Offsets are a voluntary donation to displace one&#8217;s CO2 emissions, and thus should meet very high environmental standards.  They can&#8217;t solve the climate problem, but they can serve a valuable purpose of funneling money toward jumpstarting the transition to a clean energy economy.  EOR is not part of a clean energy economy and does not &#8212; and should not &#8212; be &#8220;jumpstarted.&#8221;</p>
<p>So Paul and Bill &#8212; I can&#8217;t agree with you.  I would like to see a comprehensive apples-to-apples life-cycle analysis comparing CO2 EOR to regular oil, though.</p>
<p>Jacob &#8212; I am not a &#8220;green,&#8221; I am an energy analyst and technologist.  I don&#8217;t hate oil and coal &#8212; I just hate what their emissions of greenhouse gases are doing to this planet.  I don&#8217;t want to hinder production of oil, I just don&#8217;t wants to subsidize even more production of it.</p>
<p>As for coal, you missed the whole point of my post.  The only way to save coal in the long-term is through carbon capture and storage, which we have not seriously begun pursuing.</p>
<p>I think jcwinnie&#8217;s point is well taken.  People are stuck in BAU, even those who are concerned about global warming.</p>
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		<title>By: jcwinnie</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5306</link>
		<dc:creator>jcwinnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5306</guid>
		<description>Whaddya, kno, lotsa BAU (and above all else) commentary to this post, Joe. You must have hit a nerve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whaddya, kno, lotsa BAU (and above all else) commentary to this post, Joe. You must have hit a nerve.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul K</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5305</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5305</guid>
		<description>Jacob is obviously wrong. There is plenty of &quot;green&quot; energy. Hydro-electric is well established. Wind and solar will become more competitive as time passes and technologies improve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacob is obviously wrong. There is plenty of &#8220;green&#8221; energy. Hydro-electric is well established. Wind and solar will become more competitive as time passes and technologies improve.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5304</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/23/rule-four-of-offsets-no-enhanced-oil-recovery/#comment-5304</guid>
		<description>This post shows how greens hate oil, and coal, and and hinder the production of it, and building of new power plants or refineries. (it&#039;s for the planet).

They believe in some mysterious notion of &quot;green energy&quot; that just does not exist. They believe that if people are forced to sit in the dark (because of blackouts) they&#039;ll go out and invent green energy. They believe that by using brute force you can make people invent anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post shows how greens hate oil, and coal, and and hinder the production of it, and building of new power plants or refineries. (it&#8217;s for the planet).</p>
<p>They believe in some mysterious notion of &#8220;green energy&#8221; that just does not exist. They believe that if people are forced to sit in the dark (because of blackouts) they&#8217;ll go out and invent green energy. They believe that by using brute force you can make people invent anything.</p>
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