Comments on: Liquid coal means liquid problems http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/31/liquid-coal-means-liquid-problems/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:15:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1 By: john http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/31/liquid-coal-means-liquid-problems/#comment-5450 john Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:28:49 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/31/liquid-coal-means-liquid-problems/#comment-5450 The other bummer for CTL is the amount of carbon generated per unit of useful energy obtained. Estimates vary, but something on the order of twice as much as gasoline is typical. And the cost of any reliable sequestration of process-related carbon generated makes the whole thing kind of silly. As for a steam day? Might be the kind of weather you could expect if you start using this stuff. The other bummer for CTL is the amount of carbon generated per unit of useful energy obtained. Estimates vary, but something on the order of twice as much as gasoline is typical. And the cost of any reliable sequestration of process-related carbon generated makes the whole thing kind of silly.

As for a steam day? Might be the kind of weather you could expect if you start using this stuff.

]]> By: James Smith http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/31/liquid-coal-means-liquid-problems/#comment-10367 James Smith Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:15:55 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/31/liquid-coal-means-liquid-problems/#comment-10367 Lets compare apples to apples. Liquid coal is NOT gasoline, it is Diesel and Kerosene(Jet Fuel ) Japans Auto makers will produce 200.000 diesel powered cars for europe in 2008. Sure, the ways to eliminate CO2 will be expensive. Is that not better than fighting wars for cheap oil. Lets compare apples to apples. Liquid coal is NOT gasoline, it is Diesel and Kerosene(Jet Fuel ) Japans Auto makers will produce 200.000 diesel powered cars for europe in 2008. Sure, the ways to eliminate CO2 will be expensive. Is that not better than fighting wars for cheap oil.

]]> By: E.M.Smith http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/31/liquid-coal-means-liquid-problems/#comment-15396 E.M.Smith Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:27:45 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/31/liquid-coal-means-liquid-problems/#comment-15396 Much of that water is used for cooling. It isn't "consumed". Some is used in the "shift reaction" to get more H2 into the synthesis gas, but that is less than the amount of coal used ( 2C + O2 -> 2CO ; 2CO + H2O -> CO2 + H2 + CO then the H2 and CO get reacted to make hydrocarbons. Only one unit of water per 2 units of coal input. The reality is even better than this since coal has a lot of H already in it.) Recent advances in water desalinization have cut the costs way down. It's now cheaper to turn sea water into drinking water than to put up a dam in the Sierra Nevada mountains and pipe the water to the coastal cities. That's why so many desalinization plants are being built these days. The only limit on water availability is the desire to build the plants and the electricity to run them. To the extent that Nuclear becomes "green", you can substitute nuclear process heat in the FT reaction and cut the coal consumption by about 75%. Nuclear also clearly can power water production. I'm not advocating nukes, just pointing out the facts. A Japanese scientist developed a process using a polymer sponge to extract Uranium from sea water at about $100 - $140 / pound. If the entire world were powered by U from this source, the amount washed into the ocean each year from rock erosion would exceed that extracted. We run out of power when we run out of planet. Similarly, we could power all the U.S. from solar on about a 100 x 100 mile chunk of desert or wind using the Rockies east slope wind tunnel from Canada to Texas (and still farm under the turbines). Ditto wave power where a 100 x 1 mile patch of coast could power all of California. The bottom line is that there is no limit on power and there is no shortage of power. There is no limit of water, and there is no shortage of water. There is a shortage of the will to build the facilities that provide the unlimited water and power that is available to us. This is a political choice, not a technical issue. Choose wisely. Just don't blame the results on shortage of anything or technical limitations. The only reason for doom and gloom is lack of imagination and understanding of what is possible. Much of that water is used for cooling. It isn’t “consumed”. Some is used in the “shift reaction” to get more H2 into the synthesis gas, but that is less than the amount of coal used ( 2C + O2 -> 2CO ; 2CO + H2O -> CO2 + H2 + CO then the H2 and CO get reacted to make hydrocarbons. Only one unit of water per 2 units of coal input. The reality is even better than this since coal has a lot of H already in it.)

Recent advances in water desalinization have cut the costs way down. It’s now cheaper to turn sea water into drinking water than to put up a dam in the Sierra Nevada mountains and pipe the water to the coastal cities. That’s why so many desalinization plants are being built these days.

The only limit on water availability is the desire to build the plants and the electricity to run them.

To the extent that Nuclear becomes “green”, you can substitute nuclear process heat in the FT reaction and cut the coal consumption by about 75%. Nuclear also clearly can power water production. I’m not advocating nukes, just pointing out the facts.

A Japanese scientist developed a process using a polymer sponge to extract Uranium from sea water at about $100 - $140 / pound. If the entire world were powered by U from this source, the amount washed into the ocean each year from rock erosion would exceed that extracted. We run out of power when we run out of planet.

Similarly, we could power all the U.S. from solar on about a 100 x 100 mile chunk of desert or wind using the Rockies east slope wind tunnel from Canada to Texas (and still farm under the turbines). Ditto wave power where a 100 x 1 mile patch of coast could power all of California.

The bottom line is that there is no limit on power and there is no shortage of power. There is no limit of water, and there is no shortage of water. There is a shortage of the will to build the facilities that provide the unlimited water and power that is available to us. This is a political choice, not a technical issue.

Choose wisely. Just don’t blame the results on shortage of anything or technical limitations. The only reason for doom and gloom is lack of imagination and understanding of what is possible.

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