Comments on: Why I don’t agree with James Kunstler about peak oil and the “end of suburbia” http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:27:20 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Kimberly http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-89768 Kimberly Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:39:13 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-89768 You are forgetting that most Americans are not and will not be able to afford hybrids (until they get frequent enough to be a common used car on the market) and that suburbs are ugly and depressing and that no amount of hybrids or cheap gas will save us from traffic jams. Americans deserve transportation choices. [<em>JR: Kunstler's vision is $10 gasoline, so Americans will have plenty of choices for high-efficiency cars, thanks to Obama.</em>] You are forgetting that most Americans are not and will not be able to afford hybrids (until they get frequent enough to be a common used car on the market) and that suburbs are ugly and depressing and that no amount of hybrids or cheap gas will save us from traffic jams. Americans deserve transportation choices.

[JR: Kunstler's vision is $10 gasoline, so Americans will have plenty of choices for high-efficiency cars, thanks to Obama.]

]]> By: pete best http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-89466 pete best Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:59:37 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-89466 The main issue here is that $200 a barrel oil when it comes is a economy wrecker. The recent issues with the US economy were to some degree responsible at $4 a gallon fuel and at double that it is an issue. The other idea of plug in hybrids and somehow the USA replacing all of its small vehicle stock with them can only compound the problem to some degree as where does the USA replace existing electricity from fossil fuels and add in car energy. Its a massive ask especially as countries want more energy over time and not less. The main issue here is that $200 a barrel oil when it comes is a economy wrecker. The recent issues with the US economy were to some degree responsible at $4 a gallon fuel and at double that it is an issue. The other idea of plug in hybrids and somehow the USA replacing all of its small vehicle stock with them can only compound the problem to some degree as where does the USA replace existing electricity from fossil fuels and add in car energy. Its a massive ask especially as countries want more energy over time and not less.

]]> By: James Kunstler http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-69260 James Kunstler Mon, 08 Jun 2009 01:40:01 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-69260 The dollar was up to its armpits in quicksand, and oil prices had crept stealthily into the death-to-airlines range, and if, in the old slogan, what's good for General Motors really is good for the USA, then destiny was dealing a harsh lesson to The Land of the Free -- while I made a drive on Thursday (in a Japanese rent-a-car) through the remotest ends of upstate New York State into the province of Ontario, Canada, to see what I could see. What I saw was pretty scary. You get into these far reaches of upstate New York and your senses report that you have entered something like an HP Lovecraft story, where the sun comes up twenty minutes late, and the magnetic poles are not where they're supposed to be, and the few remaining denizens of the towns all have eleven fingers.... Even though I've seen plenty of desolation like it in other parts of the country -- the back roads of Ohio, the Mississippi River towns of the upper Midwest, the morbid stretch of blue highway between Memphis and Little Rock -- I've never encountered a landscape so shattered by the mere ravages of economic fate. The most striking feature is how all the things once so "modern," all the roadside business enterprises designed along "space age" motifs -- the car dealerships with boomerang-shaped signs, the rocket-ship-style food huts, the schools that look like atomic power installations -- all teeter now in sublime decrepitude. The reversal of spirit from childlike exuberance of the 1960s to the senile sclerosis of today said everything about where America is at. Much of what existed before the space age is not even there anymore, bulldozed decades ago in our haste to erase pre-drive-in living, as if it branded us a lower life-form than, say, our arch-enemy, the Soviets. I've wondered for many years what Modernism would be like when time finally passed it by, when it was no longer the sole thing it declared itself to be, up-to-date -- and there it was smeared all over the landscape like so much road kill. The most horrifying part of the trip was the old city of Watertown, a short hop shy of the Canadian border. Named after the many falls located on the Black River, the city developed early in the 19th century as a manufacturing center. From years of generating industrial wealth, in the early 20th century the city was said to have more millionaires per capita than any other city in the nation. Residents of Watertown built a rich public and private architectural legacy. It is the smallest city to have a park designed by Frederick Law Olmsted, the celebrated landscape architect who created Central Park in New York City. -- Wikipedia All that industry is gone now, apparently, and all that's left of the town's economy is whatever it gets from nearby Fort Drum, the giant US Army installation. Nineteen year old soldiers-in-training are not so impressed by Olmsted parks and the civic embellishments dreamed up by timber magnates, bankers, and the owners of piano factories. The humanity visible on the downtown streets of Watertown looked like extras who wandered away from the latest Road Warrior location shoot -- semi-hominid creatures with strange loping gaits, arresting hair-dos, and enough tattoos to qualify them for harpoon duty on Herman Melville's Pequod. You passed by groups of them on the streets and wanted to make sure the car's doors were locked. At the heart of the old town, everything possible had been done to erase the vestiges of pre-automobile living. I suppose this is because the first thing many young army recruits did until fairly recently was buy a car. If having to join the army (because there are so few other jobs) buys you a ticket to The American Dream, then getting a car is the consolation prize -- even if you have to make four years of "easy monthly payments" on it. Very little of the town's physical history was left standing, and most of it stood in isolation, devoid of context, awaiting the next parade of the front-end-loaders. What was left of "the action" had shifted to a ghastly franchise strip along the Route 3 connector to I-81. This stretch of highway was clearly where all the money had gone since, say 1976, though mostly to the pavement itself and its heroic furnishings of signage, light poles, multiple turning lanes, and curb cuts. The buildings were little more than packing crates with a few plastic doo-dads stuck on. You had to wonder if all this stuff would ever see another iteration of repair and restoration. I doubt it. Burger King was doing some kind of promotion in its Watertown huts and the marquee in their several parking lots proclaimed -- I swear to God -- "Ask us about our Angry Burger." WTF? Is the rage of lumpen America so repressed now that it can only be expressed in menu items that turn people into hulking four-hundred-pound monsters? It was, I'm sad to say, a relief to cross the border out of my own country. Once you got off the main highway of Canada, 401, along the north side of Lake Ontario, the landscape presented a disturbing contrast to what you saw on the American side. Unlike the slovenly, failing farms of New York State, the farms of Ontario looked successful and prosperous. The barns did not tilt at weird angles and the roofs were intact. The farm houses were freshly painted and the grounds generally not strewn with the sort of dingy plastic effluvia Americans like to deploy around their dwellings to give the impression of plentitude. You wondered: how did all the IQ points below the Great Lakes somehow migrate over to the Canadian side? Had they invented some kind of quantum spirit vacuum, run perhaps on dark matter, that sucked all the vitality out of their neighbor-to-the-south? (If so, maybe Canada should take over our dreary duties in Central Asia.) All this was occurring against the background of General Motors looming bankruptcy, an epochal moment in US history, like losing a limb or a loved one. The US Government has decided to drive a Chevrolet off the cliff Thelma and Louise style. We were heading there anyway, so why not make the trip in air-conditioned comfort, with plenty of room for all the family members, and on-board video entertainment for the little ones. In fact, it may not be the bankruptcy of GM itself that will amaze and appall the other nations of the world, so much as the US government's pretense that the company can return to health in just a little while and pay back all the money that the citizenry has allowed to be sucked into its black hole of losses. My daddy bought Chevrolets in the 1950s, marvelously crazy-looking machines with winged tail-lights that handled like pontoon boats, broke down after 30,000 miles, and were tossed out every couple of years not on account of their mechanical failures so much as their obvious lack of up-to-the-minute styling. The post-war prosperity dazzled his generation with its democratic cornucopian bonanzas. The innocence of all that is truly lost now. There is a dark sense of things shifting out there now in a major way. The tectonics of history are taking us to a strange place. Maybe Mr. Lovecraft had it right. ____________________________________
 My 2008 novel of the post-oil future, World Made By Hand, is available in paperback at all booksellers. The dollar was up to its armpits in quicksand, and oil prices had crept stealthily into the death-to-airlines range, and if, in the old slogan, what’s good for General Motors really is good for the USA, then destiny was dealing a harsh lesson to The Land of the Free — while I made a drive on Thursday (in a Japanese rent-a-car) through the remotest ends of upstate New York State into the province of Ontario, Canada, to see what I could see. What I saw was pretty scary.
You get into these far reaches of upstate New York and your senses report that you have entered something like an HP Lovecraft story, where the sun comes up twenty minutes late, and the magnetic poles are not where they’re supposed to be, and the few remaining denizens of the towns all have eleven fingers…. Even though I’ve seen plenty of desolation like it in other parts of the country — the back roads of Ohio, the Mississippi River towns of the upper Midwest, the morbid stretch of blue highway between Memphis and Little Rock — I’ve never encountered a landscape so shattered by the mere ravages of economic fate.
The most striking feature is how all the things once so “modern,” all the roadside business enterprises designed along “space age” motifs — the car dealerships with boomerang-shaped signs, the rocket-ship-style food huts, the schools that look like atomic power installations — all teeter now in sublime decrepitude. The reversal of spirit from childlike exuberance of the 1960s to the senile sclerosis of today said everything about where America is at. Much of what existed before the space age is not even there anymore, bulldozed decades ago in our haste to erase pre-drive-in living, as if it branded us a lower life-form than, say, our arch-enemy, the Soviets. I’ve wondered for many years what Modernism would be like when time finally passed it by, when it was no longer the sole thing it declared itself to be, up-to-date — and there it was smeared all over the landscape like so much road kill.
The most horrifying part of the trip was the old city of Watertown, a short hop shy of the Canadian border.

Named after the many falls located on the Black River, the city developed early in the 19th century as a manufacturing center. From years of generating industrial wealth, in the early 20th century the city was said to have more millionaires per capita than any other city in the nation. Residents of Watertown built a rich public and private architectural legacy. It is the smallest city to have a park designed by Frederick Law Olmsted, the celebrated landscape architect who created Central Park in New York City. — Wikipedia

All that industry is gone now, apparently, and all that’s left of the town’s economy is whatever it gets from nearby Fort Drum, the giant US Army installation. Nineteen year old soldiers-in-training are not so impressed by Olmsted parks and the civic embellishments dreamed up by timber magnates, bankers, and the owners of piano factories. The humanity visible on the downtown streets of Watertown looked like extras who wandered away from the latest Road Warrior location shoot — semi-hominid creatures with strange loping gaits, arresting hair-dos, and enough tattoos to qualify them for harpoon duty on Herman Melville’s Pequod. You passed by groups of them on the streets and wanted to make sure the car’s doors were locked.
At the heart of the old town, everything possible had been done to erase the vestiges of pre-automobile living. I suppose this is because the first thing many young army recruits did until fairly recently was buy a car. If having to join the army (because there are so few other jobs) buys you a ticket to The American Dream, then getting a car is the consolation prize — even if you have to make four years of “easy monthly payments” on it. Very little of the town’s physical history was left standing, and most of it stood in isolation, devoid of context, awaiting the next parade of the front-end-loaders. What was left of “the action” had shifted to a ghastly franchise strip along the Route 3 connector to I-81. This stretch of highway was clearly where all the money had gone since, say 1976, though mostly to the pavement itself and its heroic furnishings of signage, light poles, multiple turning lanes, and curb cuts. The buildings were little more than packing crates with a few plastic doo-dads stuck on. You had to wonder if all this stuff would ever see another iteration of repair and restoration. I doubt it.
Burger King was doing some kind of promotion in its Watertown huts and the marquee in their several parking lots proclaimed — I swear to God — “Ask us about our Angry Burger.” WTF? Is the rage of lumpen America so repressed now that it can only be expressed in menu items that turn people into hulking four-hundred-pound monsters?
It was, I’m sad to say, a relief to cross the border out of my own country. Once you got off the main highway of Canada, 401, along the north side of Lake Ontario, the landscape presented a disturbing contrast to what you saw on the American side. Unlike the slovenly, failing farms of New York State, the farms of Ontario looked successful and prosperous. The barns did not tilt at weird angles and the roofs were intact. The farm houses were freshly painted and the grounds generally not strewn with the sort of dingy plastic effluvia Americans like to deploy around their dwellings to give the impression of plentitude. You wondered: how did all the IQ points below the Great Lakes somehow migrate over to the Canadian side? Had they invented some kind of quantum spirit vacuum, run perhaps on dark matter, that sucked all the vitality out of their neighbor-to-the-south? (If so, maybe Canada should take over our dreary duties in Central Asia.)
All this was occurring against the background of General Motors looming bankruptcy, an epochal moment in US history, like losing a limb or a loved one. The US Government has decided to drive a Chevrolet off the cliff Thelma and Louise style. We were heading there anyway, so why not make the trip in air-conditioned comfort, with plenty of room for all the family members, and on-board video entertainment for the little ones. In fact, it may not be the bankruptcy of GM itself that will amaze and appall the other nations of the world, so much as the US government’s pretense that the company can return to health in just a little while and pay back all the money that the citizenry has allowed to be sucked into its black hole of losses.
My daddy bought Chevrolets in the 1950s, marvelously crazy-looking machines with winged tail-lights that handled like pontoon boats, broke down after 30,000 miles, and were tossed out every couple of years not on account of their mechanical failures so much as their obvious lack of up-to-the-minute styling. The post-war prosperity dazzled his generation with its democratic cornucopian bonanzas. The innocence of all that is truly lost now. There is a dark sense of things shifting out there now in a major way. The tectonics of history are taking us to a strange place. Maybe Mr. Lovecraft had it right.
____________________________________

My 2008 novel of the post-oil future, World Made By Hand, is available in paperback at all booksellers.

]]> By: msn nickleri http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-26424 msn nickleri Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:07:19 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-26424 The equation is simple - the cost of energy is going to be high (for the next 75 or more years) whether it is from oil or renewables (or nuke). This means our standard of living is going to come down (quite rapidly) in - terms of material wealth. As long as we (the majority of the world) can feed itself then we should be OK, but that is very questionable at the moment. The equation is simple – the cost of energy is going to be high (for the next 75 or more years) whether it is from oil or renewables (or nuke). This means our standard of living is going to come down (quite rapidly) in – terms of material wealth. As long as we (the majority of the world) can feed itself then we should be OK, but that is very questionable at the moment.

]]> By: John Monro http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-14817 John Monro Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:39:06 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-14817 I read, and like Kunstler, because he writes so well, and he is, even in his direst moments, so damned amusing, sometimes you have to laugh out loud. He can nail the most massive hypocrisy or puncture the most bloated statement or skewer the most preposterous argument with a few beautifully crafted bon mots. He is also, for the most part, right. He may not have been right about a crashing stock market so far, but heck, it still could happen, he may have underestimated the sheer bravado of so many investors. His predictions about the credit crunch for instance, the unadulterated criminality of business leaders and politicians in allowing the vast hyperinflated universe of derivatives, hedging funds, subprime mortgages and all the other nonsense of unrestricted capitalistic greed, have proved pretty accurate (recall he's been warning about these stupidities for several years now - he's had very well tuned antennae for the real value of so much of suburbia, as it his been his interest, and his loathing admittedly, for an even longer time). It is true, he is dismissive of technology coming to the rescue, and this article is an attempt to redress the balance. But I have some sympathy for Kunstler even here, because it is the misuse of technology that has got us where we are; we could have used the technology we already have so much more wisely, it was our choice not to do so; so it is something of a leap of faith to suggest that we are suddenly going to change and use this and future technology wisely. It's not the technology that's the issue, it's us. And in this regard, again, Kunstler seems to have us spot on - we are, collectively, not half as clever as we think we are. I read, and like Kunstler, because he writes so well, and he is, even in his direst moments, so damned amusing, sometimes you have to laugh out loud. He can nail the most massive hypocrisy or puncture the most bloated statement or skewer the most preposterous argument with a few beautifully crafted bon mots. He is also, for the most part, right. He may not have been right about a crashing stock market so far, but heck, it still could happen, he may have underestimated the sheer bravado of so many investors. His predictions about the credit crunch for instance, the unadulterated criminality of business leaders and politicians in allowing the vast hyperinflated universe of derivatives, hedging funds, subprime mortgages and all the other nonsense of unrestricted capitalistic greed, have proved pretty accurate (recall he’s been warning about these stupidities for several years now – he’s had very well tuned antennae for the real value of so much of suburbia, as it his been his interest, and his loathing admittedly, for an even longer time).

It is true, he is dismissive of technology coming to the rescue, and this article is an attempt to redress the balance. But I have some sympathy for Kunstler even here, because it is the misuse of technology that has got us where we are; we could have used the technology we already have so much more wisely, it was our choice not to do so; so it is something of a leap of faith to suggest that we are suddenly going to change and use this and future technology wisely. It’s not the technology that’s the issue, it’s us.

And in this regard, again, Kunstler seems to have us spot on – we are, collectively, not half as clever as we think we are.

]]> By: Mike Monett http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-14353 Mike Monett Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:35:48 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-14353 The thing I hate most about sprawl is how it duplicated what already existed in my city. Now my city is a ghost town and I have to go out 12 miles from where I live to shop and work. The good news for me about high energy costs is that it will be more expensive to wastefully duplicate then abandon what is already built like this. (I don't think hybrid technology can do much to lessen energy costs for bulldozers and cranes, the things sprawl is built with.) I agree that the driving costs of sprawl could easily be much less than they are now, more than making up for huge gas price increases. But another thing so unfair about sprawl in America is that its the only game in town. Except in about four or five cities, it is not really possible to live car-free, yet this is supposedly the land of choice and opportunity. We subside road building with gas taxes but think of paying for buses or trains as socialism. If energy costs make us FINALLY start examining sprawl critically, that's the big plus. We can continue to have sprawl for those that love it. But perhaps we can finally pay attention to how many people are hurt because sprawl is all we have anymore, and many of us do not want to live and work and shop in it. The thing I hate most about sprawl is how it duplicated what already existed in my city. Now my city is a ghost town and I have to go out 12 miles from where I live to shop and work.
The good news for me about high energy costs is that it will be more expensive to wastefully duplicate then abandon what is already built like this. (I don’t think hybrid technology can do much to lessen energy costs for bulldozers and cranes, the things sprawl is built with.)
I agree that the driving costs of sprawl could easily be much less than they are now, more than making up for huge gas price increases.
But another thing so unfair about sprawl in America is that its the only game in town. Except in about four or five cities, it is not really possible to live car-free, yet this is supposedly the land of choice and opportunity. We subside road building with gas taxes but think of paying for buses or trains as socialism. If energy costs make us FINALLY start examining sprawl critically, that’s the big plus. We can continue to have sprawl for those that love it. But perhaps we can finally pay attention to how many people are hurt because sprawl is all we have anymore, and many of us do not want to live and work and shop in it.

]]> By: Arline F. http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-13739 Arline F. Sat, 31 May 2008 23:04:49 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-13739 At the rate it's going now, gas is headed to $5 per gallon well before 2015. Try 2010. And by 2015, try $10 per gallon. That is, if it continues on its present course, and there's no reason to believe it won't. The biggest single reasons for the skyrocketing price of oil are: (1) China. Out-of-control Chinese demand for oil is being spurred by out-of-control U.S. demand for Chinese-made consumer products, which are foisted on U.S. consumers by greedy American middleman companies, which, instead of employing Americans to build sh*t, want to import it from cheap-labor China, feed their economy, and impoverish Americans in the name of "consumer choice". The chickens of laissez-faire capitalism WILL come home to roost. (2) The Iraq War. The biggest single strategic blunder in the history of American foreign policy has spurred fear of terrorist activities in the Persian Gulf, which has caused shipping insurance rates for global oil tankers to skyrocket, thus pushing up the price of oil even further. These two combined causative factors have been either caused by, or egged on by, the Bush Administration every step of the way, with their phony-baloney pro-corporate policies. Something's gotta give. But until then, watch those gas prices just keep rocketing upward with no end in sight. At the rate it’s going now, gas is headed to $5 per gallon well before 2015. Try 2010. And by 2015, try $10 per gallon. That is, if it continues on its present course, and there’s no reason to believe it won’t.

The biggest single reasons for the skyrocketing price of oil are:

(1) China. Out-of-control Chinese demand for oil is being spurred by out-of-control U.S. demand for Chinese-made consumer products, which are foisted on U.S. consumers by greedy American middleman companies, which, instead of employing Americans to build sh*t, want to import it from cheap-labor China, feed their economy, and impoverish Americans in the name of “consumer choice”. The chickens of laissez-faire capitalism WILL come home to roost.

(2) The Iraq War. The biggest single strategic blunder in the history of American foreign policy has spurred fear of terrorist activities in the Persian Gulf, which has caused shipping insurance rates for global oil tankers to skyrocket, thus pushing up the price of oil even further.

These two combined causative factors have been either caused by, or egged on by, the Bush Administration every step of the way, with their phony-baloney pro-corporate policies.

Something’s gotta give. But until then, watch those gas prices just keep rocketing upward with no end in sight.

]]> By: paulm http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-11772 paulm Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:28:22 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-11772 nuke has big problems as pointed out else where on this blog site. It is also non-sustainable. The equation is simple - the cost of energy is going to be high (for the next 75 or more years) whether it is from oil or renewables (or nuke). This means our standard of living is going to come down (quite rapidly) in - terms of material wealth. As long as we (the majority of the world) can feed itself then we should be OK, but that is very questionable at the moment. nuke has big problems as pointed out else where on this blog site. It is also non-sustainable.

The equation is simple – the cost of energy is going to be high (for the next 75 or more years) whether it is from oil or renewables (or nuke). This means our standard of living is going to come down (quite rapidly) in – terms of material wealth. As long as we (the majority of the world) can feed itself then we should be OK, but that is very questionable at the moment.

]]> By: lock http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-6620 lock Tue, 06 Nov 2007 16:45:18 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-6620 All forecasts are inaccurate because the global energy needs are growing by factors of four or five folds/year. Because the USA has false fears of "NUKE" power plants we must use COAL or gas for electric power generation. Wind, Solar, Wave, Geothermal can not provide more than 20% because they are very unreliable on a 24/7 basis. This does not even include the hugh operation and replacement costs. Even the City of Davis California gave up on a Solar requirement some 20 years ago; it was a complete failure and was abandoned. Hydrogen will not replace oil because it requires a lot of electrical power to free the hydrogen atoms. So unless we use nuke generators or the scientists solve the fussion problem we will not have the required energy to produce hydrogen. All forecasts are inaccurate because the global energy needs are growing by factors of four or five folds/year. Because the USA has false fears of “NUKE” power plants we must use COAL or gas for electric power generation.

Wind, Solar, Wave, Geothermal can not provide more than 20% because they are very unreliable on a 24/7 basis. This does not even include the hugh operation and replacement costs. Even the City of Davis California gave up on a Solar requirement some 20 years ago; it was a complete failure and was abandoned.

Hydrogen will not replace oil because it requires a lot of electrical power to free the hydrogen atoms. So unless we use nuke generators or the scientists solve the fussion problem we will not have the required energy to produce hydrogen.

]]> By: Paul K http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-6508 Paul K Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:11:06 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2007/10/28/why-i-dont-agree-with-james-kuntsler-about-peak-oil-and-the-end-of-suburbia/#comment-6508 John McCormick, My meaning was that without China, Russia, India and Indonesia as well Cap & Trade will not work. My point is those who are waiting for an effective government solution will wait too long. I am very interested in replacing carbon based energy. I can give you several good reasons why this is vital, none of them is AGW. Frankly, I don't give rap about CO2 emissions, but the surest way to reduce them is to stop using so much coal, oil and natural gas. Maximizing efficiencies and a greatly increased use of current technologies is possible now without much government action. I hope Joe will continue to highlight innovations in these areas. John McCormick,
My meaning was that without China, Russia, India and Indonesia as well Cap & Trade will not work. My point is those who are waiting for an effective government solution will wait too long. I am very interested in replacing carbon based energy. I can give you several good reasons why this is vital, none of them is AGW. Frankly, I don’t give rap about CO2 emissions, but the surest way to reduce them is to stop using so much coal, oil and natural gas. Maximizing efficiencies and a greatly increased use of current technologies is possible now without much government action. I hope Joe will continue to highlight innovations in these areas.

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