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	<title>Comments on: Plug-in hybrids and electric cars &#8212; a core climate solution, nationally and globally</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:28:46 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Electric Cylinder</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-34172</link>
		<dc:creator>Electric Cylinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 04:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-34172</guid>
		<description>I could say construction of such projects requires knowledge of engineering and management principles and business procedures, economics, and human behavior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could say construction of such projects requires knowledge of engineering and management principles and business procedures, economics, and human behavior.</p>
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		<title>By: vivek</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-30356</link>
		<dc:creator>vivek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-30356</guid>
		<description>Hey..

The hybrid car trend is something that i really believe shud pick up soon.
in fact i came across an event that had used these hybird cars to convey their message of climate change and create awareness about the same.
This might interest you http://indiaclimatesolutions.com/reva-lends-hand-green-brigade</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey..</p>
<p>The hybrid car trend is something that i really believe shud pick up soon.<br />
in fact i came across an event that had used these hybird cars to convey their message of climate change and create awareness about the same.<br />
This might interest you <a href="http://indiaclimatesolutions.com/reva-lends-hand-green-brigade" rel="nofollow">http://indiaclimatesolutions.com/reva-lends-hand-green-brigade</a></p>
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		<title>By: Robert Michael Foster, MA</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-23206</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Michael Foster, MA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-23206</guid>
		<description>For some of the facts and sources of facts on the cost and energy inefficiencies of hydrogen, see:

http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com/hydrogen.htm

Good luck on writing your article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For some of the facts and sources of facts on the cost and energy inefficiencies of hydrogen, see:</p>
<p><a href="http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com/hydrogen.htm" rel="nofollow">http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com/hydrogen.htm</a></p>
<p>Good luck on writing your article.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-22015</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 02:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-22015</guid>
		<description>I found a great new blog which covers all electric cars all the time:

http://www.allcarselectric.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found a great new blog which covers all electric cars all the time:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.allcarselectric.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.allcarselectric.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: david boss</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-20223</link>
		<dc:creator>david boss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-20223</guid>
		<description>Need some answers on my electric car model which will run forever and no other fuel required with unlimited milage, can anyone other than the car industry build this for the people of the world, and who can I talk with about this project?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Need some answers on my electric car model which will run forever and no other fuel required with unlimited milage, can anyone other than the car industry build this for the people of the world, and who can I talk with about this project?</p>
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		<title>By: Cyril R.</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-19070</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyril R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-19070</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s also very promising about plugin hybrids is that&#039;s it is such a potentially large schedulable demand. Say 100 million plugins with 5 kW max charge rate, that&#039;s 500 million kW of theoretical power, schedulable over the day. That&#039;s about the same as the average US electrical generation! Half a teraWatt!

The plugins will almost all be parked 20+ hours of the day but can be fully charged (with the max 5 kW capacity) in just a few hours depending on total battery size. So that&#039;s strongly schedulable.

People talk about V2G. But what I see as more promising even if battery costs stays up, is G2V. Grid to vehicle - a huge schedulable demand. This doesn&#039;t cyle the battery so battery replacement costs are not incurred. When the wind is up, charge more vehicles. When wind is down, wait a while - the cars are parked most of the time so this can be done. As long as every vehicle is charged when the user specifies it wants it, it will work fine. Perhaps the Internet can be used for managing and scheduling the grid demands such as plugins but also airconditioning and space heating. 

If (or rather, when) battery cost goes down (or ultracaps become available) they can be used as true storage, allowing even more intermittent and baseload integration. This will be a great help for a baseload grid as well as intermittent dominated grid, or a combination of both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s also very promising about plugin hybrids is that&#8217;s it is such a potentially large schedulable demand. Say 100 million plugins with 5 kW max charge rate, that&#8217;s 500 million kW of theoretical power, schedulable over the day. That&#8217;s about the same as the average US electrical generation! Half a teraWatt!</p>
<p>The plugins will almost all be parked 20+ hours of the day but can be fully charged (with the max 5 kW capacity) in just a few hours depending on total battery size. So that&#8217;s strongly schedulable.</p>
<p>People talk about V2G. But what I see as more promising even if battery costs stays up, is G2V. Grid to vehicle &#8211; a huge schedulable demand. This doesn&#8217;t cyle the battery so battery replacement costs are not incurred. When the wind is up, charge more vehicles. When wind is down, wait a while &#8211; the cars are parked most of the time so this can be done. As long as every vehicle is charged when the user specifies it wants it, it will work fine. Perhaps the Internet can be used for managing and scheduling the grid demands such as plugins but also airconditioning and space heating. </p>
<p>If (or rather, when) battery cost goes down (or ultracaps become available) they can be used as true storage, allowing even more intermittent and baseload integration. This will be a great help for a baseload grid as well as intermittent dominated grid, or a combination of both.</p>
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		<title>By: Mack</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-15272</link>
		<dc:creator>Mack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-15272</guid>
		<description>Interested:

Not sure, but my understanding of EVs is that are damn few moving parts, and no need for filters, oil, lube, etc.  Imagine the ensuing chaos as every ancillary business of the Auto industry goes belly-up.  I&#039;m not saying thats the one thing holding our Govt back from an aggressive implementation of EV technology...but it will produce casualties, and well, politicians don&#039;t like that much....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interested:</p>
<p>Not sure, but my understanding of EVs is that are damn few moving parts, and no need for filters, oil, lube, etc.  Imagine the ensuing chaos as every ancillary business of the Auto industry goes belly-up.  I&#8217;m not saying thats the one thing holding our Govt back from an aggressive implementation of EV technology&#8230;but it will produce casualties, and well, politicians don&#8217;t like that much&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: nec battery</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-12033</link>
		<dc:creator>nec battery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 01:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-12033</guid>
		<description>I tested this camera for a client. I didn’t have the light running for more than 15 minutes. The battery lasted approximately 6 hours before recharging. The LCD, however, had a few dead pixels - never saw this before. Tried returning for exchange and had to put up quite a fight. Anyone else seen this? http://www.batteryfast.co.uk</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tested this camera for a client. I didn’t have the light running for more than 15 minutes. The battery lasted approximately 6 hours before recharging. The LCD, however, had a few dead pixels &#8211; never saw this before. Tried returning for exchange and had to put up quite a fight. Anyone else seen this? <a href="http://www.batteryfast.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.batteryfast.co.uk</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jim Bullis</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-9599</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Bullis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-9599</guid>
		<description>Peter S Magnusson--  I am told elsewhere that the price of coal has greatlyl increased recently.  Your discussion of the coal reserves at your site helps to clarify that this is probably temporary, but even so, it is still far cheaper than alternatives.  For those that like to ignore capital costs, it is easy to think that the future will be a world of solar power, or other zero fuel alternatives.  Wind is not even going to be viable against 2cent power from coal.

But for those interested in global warming, I interpret the plan by GM at:

http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/PDF/presentation-sm.pdf

to mean that GM is fully aware of the 500 year supply of coal.  They also would very much like to continue to build very profitable large cars.  By use of electricity as a means for bringing energy to the cars, there is no real need to worry about efficiency.  And the electric car will turn out to be the global warming devil.

Page 12 of this plan shows a lot about how things will go in the GM view of the future.

If people only glance at this plan they might think that the GM interest in reducing pollution has something to do with global warming.  Look again.

This is not to say that GM is to be faulted for acting in the interest of its stockholders.  It is the public&#039;s responsibility to make laws to control corporate actions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter S Magnusson&#8211;  I am told elsewhere that the price of coal has greatlyl increased recently.  Your discussion of the coal reserves at your site helps to clarify that this is probably temporary, but even so, it is still far cheaper than alternatives.  For those that like to ignore capital costs, it is easy to think that the future will be a world of solar power, or other zero fuel alternatives.  Wind is not even going to be viable against 2cent power from coal.</p>
<p>But for those interested in global warming, I interpret the plan by GM at:</p>
<p><a href="http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/PDF/presentation-sm.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/PDF/presentation-sm.pdf</a></p>
<p>to mean that GM is fully aware of the 500 year supply of coal.  They also would very much like to continue to build very profitable large cars.  By use of electricity as a means for bringing energy to the cars, there is no real need to worry about efficiency.  And the electric car will turn out to be the global warming devil.</p>
<p>Page 12 of this plan shows a lot about how things will go in the GM view of the future.</p>
<p>If people only glance at this plan they might think that the GM interest in reducing pollution has something to do with global warming.  Look again.</p>
<p>This is not to say that GM is to be faulted for acting in the interest of its stockholders.  It is the public&#8217;s responsibility to make laws to control corporate actions.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Bullis</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-9408</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Bullis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 06:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/21/plug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-a-core-climate-solution-nationally-and-globally/#comment-9408</guid>
		<description>I have not found adequate numbers, but it seems that Israel is now using quite a lot of coal that they import to fire their electric generator grid.  Does anybody have a good reference on this?  What I do see is that oil and gas reserves are not much and that they are forming some kind of agreement with Egypt to supply natural gas, but it is not clear when.  So, like the US, most of the electricity for their cars and charging stations etc. would seem likely to come from coal.  Can they shift their grid?  That might not be so easy.  I get ther impression that Israel is not quite so gluttonous as we are as far as driving big and inefficient vehicles, so maybe they can do better than we will probably do.

To Peter S. Magnusson, I think your statement about no gain compared to a hybrid is an important fact, and it kind of agrees with my analysis if we are talking about a PRIUS hybrid.  But you say there is room to shift our grid.  How do we do this.  

We already have a substantial reserve capacity in natural gas fired facilities, but the cost of natural gas compared to coal makes it hard to get the US producers to use expensive natural gas.

Hard numbers need to be used in these discussions, but in the interim, I note that the US is not looking to be in a great position to shift much of anything.  Of course, in the context of dumping a trillion dollars or so minding other people&#039;s business, it might seem that we could well afford to spend a trillion dollars to displace the coal fired facilities with wind towers.  It is certainly enticing, but I am afraid the trillion for war is only now starting to be a bill that we are starting to pay.  I see it in the $1.56 euro and $110 oil, not to mention the insane inflation in housing that led to near failure of banks, only halted temporarily by money maneuvers that will further shift the load to the future.  For a country that does not seem to be producing enough to get trade balance under control, it may be tricky to find enough workers ready and able to pay taxes to cover any of these bills.  

My first approach is to actually use less energy.  It takes a very different kind of car to do this.  Yes, the PRIUS would be an improvement, and if that is the best we can do, then ok.  But do not get tricked by the latest batch of &quot;hybrids&quot; or even electric or plug-in vehicles that simply shift more energy from oil to coal.  These actually have economic merit and would help with oil dependency problems.  But they will not help with CO2.  

It really is possible to travel in personal cars, quickly and efficiently, but they sure will look different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not found adequate numbers, but it seems that Israel is now using quite a lot of coal that they import to fire their electric generator grid.  Does anybody have a good reference on this?  What I do see is that oil and gas reserves are not much and that they are forming some kind of agreement with Egypt to supply natural gas, but it is not clear when.  So, like the US, most of the electricity for their cars and charging stations etc. would seem likely to come from coal.  Can they shift their grid?  That might not be so easy.  I get ther impression that Israel is not quite so gluttonous as we are as far as driving big and inefficient vehicles, so maybe they can do better than we will probably do.</p>
<p>To Peter S. Magnusson, I think your statement about no gain compared to a hybrid is an important fact, and it kind of agrees with my analysis if we are talking about a PRIUS hybrid.  But you say there is room to shift our grid.  How do we do this.  </p>
<p>We already have a substantial reserve capacity in natural gas fired facilities, but the cost of natural gas compared to coal makes it hard to get the US producers to use expensive natural gas.</p>
<p>Hard numbers need to be used in these discussions, but in the interim, I note that the US is not looking to be in a great position to shift much of anything.  Of course, in the context of dumping a trillion dollars or so minding other people&#8217;s business, it might seem that we could well afford to spend a trillion dollars to displace the coal fired facilities with wind towers.  It is certainly enticing, but I am afraid the trillion for war is only now starting to be a bill that we are starting to pay.  I see it in the $1.56 euro and $110 oil, not to mention the insane inflation in housing that led to near failure of banks, only halted temporarily by money maneuvers that will further shift the load to the future.  For a country that does not seem to be producing enough to get trade balance under control, it may be tricky to find enough workers ready and able to pay taxes to cover any of these bills.  </p>
<p>My first approach is to actually use less energy.  It takes a very different kind of car to do this.  Yes, the PRIUS would be an improvement, and if that is the best we can do, then ok.  But do not get tricked by the latest batch of &#8220;hybrids&#8221; or even electric or plug-in vehicles that simply shift more energy from oil to coal.  These actually have economic merit and would help with oil dependency problems.  But they will not help with CO2.  </p>
<p>It really is possible to travel in personal cars, quickly and efficiently, but they sure will look different.</p>
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