<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.1" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Disputing the &#8216;consensus&#8217; on global warming</title>
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1</generator>

	<item>
		<title>By: Cliff Figallo</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8963</link>
		<author>Cliff Figallo</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 04:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8963</guid>
					<description>But it's not just the people you're thinking of when you say "deniers," Joe. The prospect of things actually, really getting bad in the future is difficult for people to process. I know the feeling and don't like it myself. It's a feeling of dread that I only think goes away when you're trying to do something about it -trying to get the information across and get some action happening. 

And the longer we go without much of anything happening - certainly not at the national level and sparsely at the local level - the closer we see those tipping point that the best of science is warning us about. 

So good on ya for writing that article and may more people begin to do something about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But it&#8217;s not just the people you&#8217;re thinking of when you say &#8220;deniers,&#8221; Joe. The prospect of things actually, really getting bad in the future is difficult for people to process. I know the feeling and don&#8217;t like it myself. It&#8217;s a feeling of dread that I only think goes away when you&#8217;re trying to do something about it -trying to get the information across and get some action happening. </p>
<p>And the longer we go without much of anything happening - certainly not at the national level and sparsely at the local level - the closer we see those tipping point that the best of science is warning us about. </p>
<p>So good on ya for writing that article and may more people begin to do something about it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ronald</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8969</link>
		<author>Ronald</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8969</guid>
					<description>I can understand why you want to distinguish between what are the ‘opinions of Climatologist scientists’ and what the ‘science, data and real world observations’ are.   It’s the science, data and real world observations that are driving climatology, not the opinions of Climatologists that would be the stronger argument and I’d have to agree with you.    

I don’t know if that’s enough to change the debate.  I wish it would.   But as someone who has worked thru (struggled) with Rationalism, Empiricism and Kants ‘Pure Reason’ I wasn’t confused (I think) with what the IPCC and Climatologists meant by consensus.    That the IPCC report is just the minimum possible political consensus that the UN could put out and that what actually is going to happen could be worse.

Louis Pasteur ran a test on sheep and anthrax.  Fifty sheep were given the anthrax vaccine and fifty sheep were not given the vaccine and they were all put into a grass field that had anthrax and were allowed to graze.   After 48 hours all the sheep that were vaccinated were alive and all the sheep that weren’t were dead.   Before the test, the scientific consensus of the Sorbonne’s and world wide scientists was that Pasteur was wrong, it’s not little bugs that made people sick, it’s the failure of our body organs that caused us to get sick and die.   The scientists didn’t think that little things like microbiology could affect big things like our body.   The opinion of Louis Pasteur meant nothing to these scientists who laughed at Pasteur’s theory, until the test.    They didn’t believe in the opinion of Pasteur, only the test.   Except after the test and then they listened to Pasteur's opinion.   

Climatologists just have to be really right about something that will save millions of lives, then people will listen to you.   To late?  That is the tragedy, isn't it.  

Maybe you are on to something, but how do you teach millions of people the philosophy of science in so little time?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can understand why you want to distinguish between what are the ‘opinions of Climatologist scientists’ and what the ‘science, data and real world observations’ are.   It’s the science, data and real world observations that are driving climatology, not the opinions of Climatologists that would be the stronger argument and I’d have to agree with you.    </p>
<p>I don’t know if that’s enough to change the debate.  I wish it would.   But as someone who has worked thru (struggled) with Rationalism, Empiricism and Kants ‘Pure Reason’ I wasn’t confused (I think) with what the IPCC and Climatologists meant by consensus.    That the IPCC report is just the minimum possible political consensus that the UN could put out and that what actually is going to happen could be worse.</p>
<p>Louis Pasteur ran a test on sheep and anthrax.  Fifty sheep were given the anthrax vaccine and fifty sheep were not given the vaccine and they were all put into a grass field that had anthrax and were allowed to graze.   After 48 hours all the sheep that were vaccinated were alive and all the sheep that weren’t were dead.   Before the test, the scientific consensus of the Sorbonne’s and world wide scientists was that Pasteur was wrong, it’s not little bugs that made people sick, it’s the failure of our body organs that caused us to get sick and die.   The scientists didn’t think that little things like microbiology could affect big things like our body.   The opinion of Louis Pasteur meant nothing to these scientists who laughed at Pasteur’s theory, until the test.    They didn’t believe in the opinion of Pasteur, only the test.   Except after the test and then they listened to Pasteur&#8217;s opinion.   </p>
<p>Climatologists just have to be really right about something that will save millions of lives, then people will listen to you.   To late?  That is the tragedy, isn&#8217;t it.  </p>
<p>Maybe you are on to something, but how do you teach millions of people the philosophy of science in so little time?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dano</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8974</link>
		<author>Dano</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8974</guid>
					<description>IMHO Ronald gets at the nub wonderfully. 

An old GF used to receive weekly envelopes from multitudinous fuzzy-bunny environmentalist organizations, all pleading weekly for money to solve some crisis. 

Now I'm sure that the alarmism got old for millions, fostering an environment where 'alarmist' can be tossed around like an epithet (like 'liberal') for anything denialists oppose. 

Trouble is, these fuzzy-bunny organizations know that there is too much for all of us to pay attention to, therefore we need extra help to have our attention drawn to x, y, or z. 

"Lord! save us from outrage fatigue!"

Best,

D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMHO Ronald gets at the nub wonderfully. </p>
<p>An old GF used to receive weekly envelopes from multitudinous fuzzy-bunny environmentalist organizations, all pleading weekly for money to solve some crisis. </p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m sure that the alarmism got old for millions, fostering an environment where &#8216;alarmist&#8217; can be tossed around like an epithet (like &#8216;liberal&#8217;) for anything denialists oppose. </p>
<p>Trouble is, these fuzzy-bunny organizations know that there is too much for all of us to pay attention to, therefore we need extra help to have our attention drawn to x, y, or z. </p>
<p>&#8220;Lord! save us from outrage fatigue!&#8221;</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>D</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8975</link>
		<author>David B. Benson</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8975</guid>
					<description>This seems to me to be an excellent approach.

Hope it plays well in Peoria...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This seems to me to be an excellent approach.</p>
<p>Hope it plays well in Peoria&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8978</link>
		<author>David B. Benson</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8978</guid>
					<description>Here is a link to a piece on abrupt climate change.  Maybe a focus on this uncertainty would play well in Peoria?

http://biopact.com/2008/02/scientists-find-subtle-wind-variations.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a link to a piece on abrupt climate change.  Maybe a focus on this uncertainty would play well in Peoria?</p>
<p><a href="http://biopact.com/2008/02/scientists-find-subtle-wind-variations.html" rel="nofollow">http://biopact.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2008/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>02/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>scientists-find-subtle-wind-variations.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bishop hill</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8981</link>
		<author>bishop hill</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8981</guid>
					<description>I thought someone had recently shown that the reduction in Arctic sea ice had been caused by a change in the winds rather than AGW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought someone had recently shown that the reduction in Arctic sea ice had been caused by a change in the winds rather than AGW.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8982</link>
		<author>Joe</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8982</guid>
					<description>No.  The warming pushed the ice to a thinning point that made them more vulnerable to Arctic winds.  The Arctic may be experiencing a period of stronger winds -- but that itself may be due to global warming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No.  The warming pushed the ice to a thinning point that made them more vulnerable to Arctic winds.  The Arctic may be experiencing a period of stronger winds &#8212; but that itself may be due to global warming.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul T.</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8986</link>
		<author>Paul T.</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-8986</guid>
					<description>Ralph Keeling had an interesting analogy for the IPCC and climate science, which he explained on a UCTV panel with James Hansen. He likened the discrepancy to a train. At the front of the train you have the opinions of scientists based on their work and observations. Following behind all of those opinions is the IPCC, in the caboose position. It takes time for the caboose to make it to the position the engine once had. Obviously not the TGV in his analogy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ralph Keeling had an interesting analogy for the IPCC and climate science, which he explained on a UCTV panel with James Hansen. He likened the discrepancy to a train. At the front of the train you have the opinions of scientists based on their work and observations. Following behind all of those opinions is the IPCC, in the caboose position. It takes time for the caboose to make it to the position the engine once had. Obviously not the TGV in his analogy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-9134</link>
		<author>Dave</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 15:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/02/26/disputing-the-consensus-on-global-warming/#comment-9134</guid>
					<description>Let the backpedaling begin!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let the backpedaling begin!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
</channel>
</rss>
