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	<title>Comments on: Is it still disinformation if the speaker believes it&#8217;s true?</title>
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	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/bush-disinformation-global-warming-renewable-energy-technologies/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Paul K</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/bush-disinformation-global-warming-renewable-energy-technologies/#comment-9276</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 05:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/is-it-still-disinformation-if-the-speaker-believes-its-true/#comment-9276</guid>
		<description>Nick, 
I wholeheartedly agree with your comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick,<br />
I wholeheartedly agree with your comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan G.</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/bush-disinformation-global-warming-renewable-energy-technologies/#comment-9262</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 20:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/is-it-still-disinformation-if-the-speaker-believes-its-true/#comment-9262</guid>
		<description>Ronald said:

&quot;Some Republicans complain that Pres. Clinton didn’t do enough to go after terrorists.&quot;   NOW they say that, but back then every attempt was greeted with the &quot;Wag the dog&quot; accusation.

Congratulations to Bush who has shown that carbon emmisions can be SLOWED by digging a big economic hole and dragging the country into it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ronald said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Some Republicans complain that Pres. Clinton didn’t do enough to go after terrorists.&#8221;   NOW they say that, but back then every attempt was greeted with the &#8220;Wag the dog&#8221; accusation.</p>
<p>Congratulations to Bush who has shown that carbon emmisions can be SLOWED by digging a big economic hole and dragging the country into it.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul K</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/bush-disinformation-global-warming-renewable-energy-technologies/#comment-9253</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 18:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/is-it-still-disinformation-if-the-speaker-believes-its-true/#comment-9253</guid>
		<description>Dean,
Do you find it as odd as I do that Bush, by doing nothing, has a better record than Clinton who had both Al Gore Joe Romm at his side? Actually, Bush has done quite a bit, especially in promoting efficiencies which Joe correctly promotes as a key to the solution. While he is not a &quot;warmer&quot; Bush has emphasized reducing our dependence on oil and decreasing the carbon intensity in our economy. Because his reasons are economic and national security rather than climate, he is vilified by those who would rather gain political advantage than find common ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dean,<br />
Do you find it as odd as I do that Bush, by doing nothing, has a better record than Clinton who had both Al Gore Joe Romm at his side? Actually, Bush has done quite a bit, especially in promoting efficiencies which Joe correctly promotes as a key to the solution. While he is not a &#8220;warmer&#8221; Bush has emphasized reducing our dependence on oil and decreasing the carbon intensity in our economy. Because his reasons are economic and national security rather than climate, he is vilified by those who would rather gain political advantage than find common ground.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/bush-disinformation-global-warming-renewable-energy-technologies/#comment-9251</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 17:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/is-it-still-disinformation-if-the-speaker-believes-its-true/#comment-9251</guid>
		<description>Paul may be right that were the numbers reversed, partisans would claim a triumph for Clinton and abject failure for Bush.  But if making that claim, without further proof, would be intellectually dishonest, and I agree with Paul that it would, why is making the opposite claim without further proof, as Paul does, intellectually honest?  

Clinton never pushed very hard for policies to prevent climate change, despite his professions, because he faced too much opposition to them in Congress--not only from Republicans, but from Democrats.  One of the only bright spots during the Clinton years was Joe Romm&#039;s Energy Department, which (with comparatively little public notice) made a real push to promote new energy technologies.

Bush, by contrast, for a long time maintained that global warming was not a serious, or at least not an urgent, problem, and the policies of his administration have reflected that position.  Reduction in carbon emissions have taken place during his presidency, but no energy policy decision he has made that contributed to that reduction.  Had he adopted different set of policies, carbon emissions could have been reduced far more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul may be right that were the numbers reversed, partisans would claim a triumph for Clinton and abject failure for Bush.  But if making that claim, without further proof, would be intellectually dishonest, and I agree with Paul that it would, why is making the opposite claim without further proof, as Paul does, intellectually honest?  </p>
<p>Clinton never pushed very hard for policies to prevent climate change, despite his professions, because he faced too much opposition to them in Congress&#8211;not only from Republicans, but from Democrats.  One of the only bright spots during the Clinton years was Joe Romm&#8217;s Energy Department, which (with comparatively little public notice) made a real push to promote new energy technologies.</p>
<p>Bush, by contrast, for a long time maintained that global warming was not a serious, or at least not an urgent, problem, and the policies of his administration have reflected that position.  Reduction in carbon emissions have taken place during his presidency, but no energy policy decision he has made that contributed to that reduction.  Had he adopted different set of policies, carbon emissions could have been reduced far more.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul K</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/bush-disinformation-global-warming-renewable-energy-technologies/#comment-9249</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/is-it-still-disinformation-if-the-speaker-believes-its-true/#comment-9249</guid>
		<description>john,
Go to the link in my original comment. Click on  &quot;(CO2) - History from 1949&quot;. Show me where I am wrong. Show me any fact that backs up your contention. I am always open to correction. Thank you, though, for one of the funniest things I&#039;ve read in a long time: &quot;don’t ascribe all things good or bad to Presidents&quot; followed by &quot;Bush has doomed this country and the world to purgatory.&quot; Priceless. None of the excuses, rationalizations and partisan whining from you or Joe changes the fact that, for GHG, Bush has a better record than Clinton. I admit I am more than a little surprised by this too. Consider this. If the emission figures were reversed, is there any doubt you would take it as absolute proof of Clinton&#039;s success and Bush&#039;s failure in curbing GHG.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>john,<br />
Go to the link in my original comment. Click on  &#8220;(CO2) &#8211; History from 1949&#8243;. Show me where I am wrong. Show me any fact that backs up your contention. I am always open to correction. Thank you, though, for one of the funniest things I&#8217;ve read in a long time: &#8220;don’t ascribe all things good or bad to Presidents&#8221; followed by &#8220;Bush has doomed this country and the world to purgatory.&#8221; Priceless. None of the excuses, rationalizations and partisan whining from you or Joe changes the fact that, for GHG, Bush has a better record than Clinton. I admit I am more than a little surprised by this too. Consider this. If the emission figures were reversed, is there any doubt you would take it as absolute proof of Clinton&#8217;s success and Bush&#8217;s failure in curbing GHG.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/bush-disinformation-global-warming-renewable-energy-technologies/#comment-9248</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/is-it-still-disinformation-if-the-speaker-believes-its-true/#comment-9248</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://climateprogress.org/2007/09/04/give-bush-some-perverse-credit-for-emissions-drop/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I have previously blogged on this&lt;/a&gt;.

Bush had 9/11 -- which led to recession and a sharp drop in air travel.  So starting the Bush GHG trend in 2001 is silly -- especially since one can hardly credit any Bush policies for having had any impact in his first year (unless you are attributing 9/11 to him, which I&#039;m sure you&#039;re not).  Now we&#039;re in another recession, brought about in part by Bush&#039;s non-energy policy that has led to skyrocketing oil prices and natural gas prices.

So Bush had 9/11, two recessions, and record high energy prices.  Kudos to him for a brilliant strategy to slow emissions growth.

Clinton had record economic growth and job creation, plus historically low energy prices, and, of course, for 6 years a Gingrich Congress that blocked our efforts to increase in clean technology deployment funding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://climateprogress.org/2007/09/04/give-bush-some-perverse-credit-for-emissions-drop/" rel="nofollow">I have previously blogged on this</a>.</p>
<p>Bush had 9/11 &#8212; which led to recession and a sharp drop in air travel.  So starting the Bush GHG trend in 2001 is silly &#8212; especially since one can hardly credit any Bush policies for having had any impact in his first year (unless you are attributing 9/11 to him, which I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re not).  Now we&#8217;re in another recession, brought about in part by Bush&#8217;s non-energy policy that has led to skyrocketing oil prices and natural gas prices.</p>
<p>So Bush had 9/11, two recessions, and record high energy prices.  Kudos to him for a brilliant strategy to slow emissions growth.</p>
<p>Clinton had record economic growth and job creation, plus historically low energy prices, and, of course, for 6 years a Gingrich Congress that blocked our efforts to increase in clean technology deployment funding.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/bush-disinformation-global-warming-renewable-energy-technologies/#comment-9247</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/is-it-still-disinformation-if-the-speaker-believes-its-true/#comment-9247</guid>
		<description>Correlation does not equal causation, Paul K</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correlation does not equal causation, Paul K</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/bush-disinformation-global-warming-renewable-energy-technologies/#comment-9245</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/is-it-still-disinformation-if-the-speaker-believes-its-true/#comment-9245</guid>
		<description>Paul K.  

There are several problems with your post -- not the least of which is you got your facts wrong (Better check with EIA, again).

Moreover, what happened on Bush&#039;s watch was not a result of any coherent Bush policy and it was definetely not good.

First, oil increased in price by 300% -- leading to less consumption;  second, American manufacturing was eviscerated, and much of it went overseas.  Since we upped our consumption, of imported goods,  what we really did was export our carbon emissions (along with our wealth and wages) -- we are still responsible for those emissions, they merely occurr outside our borders -- and GHGs don&#039;t respect borders.  

Nope, a sizable protion of  those emissions from China are ours, just as surely as if we&#039;d kept the jobs here.  Particularly since we skuttled any attempt to get an international treaty.

And as others have pointed out, the Republican Congress consistently cut Clinton&#039;s budget for energy efficiency and renewable energy.

So, botton line Paul K.  Don&#039;t mislead, use real facts; don&#039;t ascribe all things good or bad to Presidents.

Admit the facts -- Bush has doomed this country and the world to purgatory; the Republican Congress prevented Clinton from doing what he wanted. (And to be fair, Clinton could and should have pressd the issue more than he did -- on the other hand, the Repugs had eviscerated his presidency with the whole inane Lewisnsky thing, so he didn&#039;t have much political capital to play with ... but don&#039;t get me started on how reprehensible and hypocritical THAT was -- putting the Party before the country seems more like a Soviet thing, but the Repugs keep doing it ).

But back to the matter at hand -- Bush&#039;s purported &quot;success&quot;  on global warming -- facts suggest otherwise.  Facts.  Such nasty things to ideaologues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul K.  </p>
<p>There are several problems with your post &#8212; not the least of which is you got your facts wrong (Better check with EIA, again).</p>
<p>Moreover, what happened on Bush&#8217;s watch was not a result of any coherent Bush policy and it was definetely not good.</p>
<p>First, oil increased in price by 300% &#8212; leading to less consumption;  second, American manufacturing was eviscerated, and much of it went overseas.  Since we upped our consumption, of imported goods,  what we really did was export our carbon emissions (along with our wealth and wages) &#8212; we are still responsible for those emissions, they merely occurr outside our borders &#8212; and GHGs don&#8217;t respect borders.  </p>
<p>Nope, a sizable protion of  those emissions from China are ours, just as surely as if we&#8217;d kept the jobs here.  Particularly since we skuttled any attempt to get an international treaty.</p>
<p>And as others have pointed out, the Republican Congress consistently cut Clinton&#8217;s budget for energy efficiency and renewable energy.</p>
<p>So, botton line Paul K.  Don&#8217;t mislead, use real facts; don&#8217;t ascribe all things good or bad to Presidents.</p>
<p>Admit the facts &#8212; Bush has doomed this country and the world to purgatory; the Republican Congress prevented Clinton from doing what he wanted. (And to be fair, Clinton could and should have pressd the issue more than he did &#8212; on the other hand, the Repugs had eviscerated his presidency with the whole inane Lewisnsky thing, so he didn&#8217;t have much political capital to play with &#8230; but don&#8217;t get me started on how reprehensible and hypocritical THAT was &#8212; putting the Party before the country seems more like a Soviet thing, but the Repugs keep doing it ).</p>
<p>But back to the matter at hand &#8212; Bush&#8217;s purported &#8220;success&#8221;  on global warming &#8212; facts suggest otherwise.  Facts.  Such nasty things to ideaologues.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul K</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/bush-disinformation-global-warming-renewable-energy-technologies/#comment-9244</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/is-it-still-disinformation-if-the-speaker-believes-its-true/#comment-9244</guid>
		<description>John L. McCormick, 
I mistyped. The figures cited are for million metric tons. Please add six zeros to the gallons of gasoline number. Sorry for the confusion. The fact remains that the Clinton Administration was an abject failure in reducing greenhouse gases, while the Bush Administration has been quite successful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John L. McCormick,<br />
I mistyped. The figures cited are for million metric tons. Please add six zeros to the gallons of gasoline number. Sorry for the confusion. The fact remains that the Clinton Administration was an abject failure in reducing greenhouse gases, while the Bush Administration has been quite successful.</p>
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		<title>By: John L. McCormick</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/bush-disinformation-global-warming-renewable-energy-technologies/#comment-9243</link>
		<dc:creator>John L. McCormick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 13:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/06/is-it-still-disinformation-if-the-speaker-believes-its-true/#comment-9243</guid>
		<description>Paul K.

You got your knickers in a twist over not very much CO2.

You said:
[During the eight years of the Clinton Administration, CO2 emissions increased by 826 metric tons.]

826 metric tons CO2 = 1,821,018 pounds of CO2

a gallon of combusted gasoline yield 19.2 pounds of CO2

Vice Presidnet Gore and Joe Romm are guilty of allowing US CO2 emissions to increase by an amount equal to 95,000 gallons of gasoline?

You doth protest with too much fiction and without your facts in a row.

John McCormick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul K.</p>
<p>You got your knickers in a twist over not very much CO2.</p>
<p>You said:<br />
[During the eight years of the Clinton Administration, CO2 emissions increased by 826 metric tons.]</p>
<p>826 metric tons CO2 = 1,821,018 pounds of CO2</p>
<p>a gallon of combusted gasoline yield 19.2 pounds of CO2</p>
<p>Vice Presidnet Gore and Joe Romm are guilty of allowing US CO2 emissions to increase by an amount equal to 95,000 gallons of gasoline?</p>
<p>You doth protest with too much fiction and without your facts in a row.</p>
<p>John McCormick</p>
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