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	<title>Comments on: Media enable denier spin 3:  PLEASE stop calling them &#8220;skeptics&#8221;</title>
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 01:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mike Treder</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9313</link>
		<author>Mike Treder</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9313</guid>
					<description>I agree with you about the inaptness of both 'skeptic' and 'denier'. But 'delayer-1000' seems much too unwieldy and jargony. 

I'd prefer 'climate fatalists', as their approach is to eschew tough solutions and to let things develop as they will, thus fatalist, and the results of that approach will almost certainly prove fatal to numerous species and possibly to modern human civilization as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you about the inaptness of both &#8217;skeptic&#8217; and &#8216;denier&#8217;. But &#8216;delayer-1000&#8242; seems much too unwieldy and jargony. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d prefer &#8216;climate fatalists&#8217;, as their approach is to eschew tough solutions and to let things develop as they will, thus fatalist, and the results of that approach will almost certainly prove fatal to numerous species and possibly to modern human civilization as well.</p>
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		<title>By: JMG</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9315</link>
		<author>JMG</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9315</guid>
					<description>If, as you say (and I agree with you) that CO2 concentration in the atmosphere (or, even better, CO2e - CO2 equivalent, accounting for methane, NOx, etc.) is the most important number then we need to start a campaign to have every newspaper include this number on the weather page every day, and to have all the broadcast media include it with every weather broadcast.  Someone must be making an authoritative measurement daily, which can be distributed by the National Weather Service.  I realize it doesn't change that rapidly, but having that number hitting people in the face every day is important.

Speaking of which, why isn't it in the frame on this website in big numbers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If, as you say (and I agree with you) that CO2 concentration in the atmosphere (or, even better, CO2e - CO2 equivalent, accounting for methane, NOx, etc.) is the most important number then we need to start a campaign to have every newspaper include this number on the weather page every day, and to have all the broadcast media include it with every weather broadcast.  Someone must be making an authoritative measurement daily, which can be distributed by the National Weather Service.  I realize it doesn&#8217;t change that rapidly, but having that number hitting people in the face every day is important.</p>
<p>Speaking of which, why isn&#8217;t it in the frame on this website in big numbers?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9316</link>
		<author>Joe</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9316</guid>
					<description>I've thought about it.  Let me think more about it.  The number changes very slowly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve thought about it.  Let me think more about it.  The number changes very slowly.</p>
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		<title>By: JMG</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9317</link>
		<author>JMG</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9317</guid>
					<description>Or we could just call them unreconstructed cold war troglodytes.  See

“The American Denial of Global Warming”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T4UF_Rmlio 

Naomi Oreskes, Ph.D.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or we could just call them unreconstructed cold war troglodytes.  See</p>
<p>“The American Denial of Global Warming”</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T4UF_Rmlio" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T4UF_Rmlio</a> </p>
<p>Naomi Oreskes, Ph.D.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Koroluk</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9320</link>
		<author>Will Koroluk</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9320</guid>
					<description>Wasn't delay the main weapon used for years by the tobacco industry? Long after the science was in the industry continued to insist that links to cancer were either non-existent or tenuous. In the meantime, every week of delay meant another week of profits. I think I also recall that Fred Singer, who for a few years was the guru of the climate-change delayers, played a similar role for a while in the tobacco wars.
I agree with Mike Treder's view that 'delayer-1000' is too unwieldy. What's needed is something that is short enough to fit on one line of a one-column headline, and that's immediately understood by readers. As much as I like 'unreconstructed cold war troglodytes,' it would be awfully tough to fit into a headline unless, it was shortened to something like 'trogs.' I can see the headline now: 'Trogs protest new exhaust rules'</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wasn&#8217;t delay the main weapon used for years by the tobacco industry? Long after the science was in the industry continued to insist that links to cancer were either non-existent or tenuous. In the meantime, every week of delay meant another week of profits. I think I also recall that Fred Singer, who for a few years was the guru of the climate-change delayers, played a similar role for a while in the tobacco wars.<br />
I agree with Mike Treder&#8217;s view that &#8216;delayer-1000&#8242; is too unwieldy. What&#8217;s needed is something that is short enough to fit on one line of a one-column headline, and that&#8217;s immediately understood by readers. As much as I like &#8216;unreconstructed cold war troglodytes,&#8217; it would be awfully tough to fit into a headline unless, it was shortened to something like &#8216;trogs.&#8217; I can see the headline now: &#8216;Trogs protest new exhaust rules&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9321</link>
		<author>Ronald</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9321</guid>
					<description>Giving them a special name would be giving some of them what they want, recognition.   It may be better to just be concerned with trying to motivate those who agree with the cause and are not active enough to more action.

People are to sophisticated to care about a name.  Those against doing something about global warming would just wear the name as an honor.    Let them name themselves, of which apparently they haven’t done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giving them a special name would be giving some of them what they want, recognition.   It may be better to just be concerned with trying to motivate those who agree with the cause and are not active enough to more action.</p>
<p>People are to sophisticated to care about a name.  Those against doing something about global warming would just wear the name as an honor.    Let them name themselves, of which apparently they haven’t done.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul K</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9322</link>
		<author>Paul K</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9322</guid>
					<description>Good riddance to "denier". It is a term meant to inflame rather than persuade. Delayer-1000 reminds me of my old computer with the dial up connection. How about anti-usufructarian?
You are correctly looking for language that will move the focus of the discussion from the science to solutions. I have said before that it is not necessary to agree on AGW to agree on future actions, that there are compelling economic, national security and environmental reasons to replace carbon energy even in the however unlikely event AGW is false. Of course, even if  the current warming is caused by something other than CO2, that warming could well continue or worsen. A wise policy maker would include mitigation strategies in an overall plan. Since the key is to persuade on the solution, not the science. I encourage all to drop the pejoratives and seek common ground. The recent harsh criticism of General Motors for looking to develop alternative vehicles for reasons of economic survival rather than climate catastrophe is an example of counterproductive narrow mindedness. 

"If you were running national and global climate policy, what level of global CO2 concentrations would be your goal and how would you achieve it?" 

This is a great question. I hope everyone here will weigh in on this especially Killian and Mashey and Dano and some of the other "heavy hitters." ClimateProgress has a remarkably intelligent and successful group of commenters and this is a great opportunity to "kick it up a notch." Let's get busy.

Contention over the effects of CO2 is the major obstacle to action. Therefore, I recommend an approach that focuses on replacing carbon fuels. This has a much broader base of support, is the ultimate desired end and will eliminate CO2 emissions perforce. I'll get specific in a later comment. Until then, I'll note that technology, both the wide application of the currently available and the development of the new, is not a delaying tactic. It is the only path to success. Without an explosion of technology, the unwieldy, easily corruptible cap and trade schemes and regressive tax plans will serve only to oppress the people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good riddance to &#8220;denier&#8221;. It is a term meant to inflame rather than persuade. Delayer-1000 reminds me of my old computer with the dial up connection. How about anti-usufructarian?<br />
You are correctly looking for language that will move the focus of the discussion from the science to solutions. I have said before that it is not necessary to agree on AGW to agree on future actions, that there are compelling economic, national security and environmental reasons to replace carbon energy even in the however unlikely event AGW is false. Of course, even if  the current warming is caused by something other than CO2, that warming could well continue or worsen. A wise policy maker would include mitigation strategies in an overall plan. Since the key is to persuade on the solution, not the science. I encourage all to drop the pejoratives and seek common ground. The recent harsh criticism of General Motors for looking to develop alternative vehicles for reasons of economic survival rather than climate catastrophe is an example of counterproductive narrow mindedness. </p>
<p>&#8220;If you were running national and global climate policy, what level of global CO2 concentrations would be your goal and how would you achieve it?&#8221; </p>
<p>This is a great question. I hope everyone here will weigh in on this especially Killian and Mashey and Dano and some of the other &#8220;heavy hitters.&#8221; ClimateProgress has a remarkably intelligent and successful group of commenters and this is a great opportunity to &#8220;kick it up a notch.&#8221; Let&#8217;s get busy.</p>
<p>Contention over the effects of CO2 is the major obstacle to action. Therefore, I recommend an approach that focuses on replacing carbon fuels. This has a much broader base of support, is the ultimate desired end and will eliminate CO2 emissions perforce. I&#8217;ll get specific in a later comment. Until then, I&#8217;ll note that technology, both the wide application of the currently available and the development of the new, is not a delaying tactic. It is the only path to success. Without an explosion of technology, the unwieldy, easily corruptible cap and trade schemes and regressive tax plans will serve only to oppress the people.</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9324</link>
		<author>David B. Benson</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9324</guid>
					<description>Joe --- How about just 'fools'?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe &#8212; How about just &#8216;fools&#8217;?</p>
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		<title>By: tidal</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9325</link>
		<author>tidal</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9325</guid>
					<description>If you were to try to etch a "ppm concentration" number on the public's consciousness, as JMG is suggesting, I think it would have to be modified to something like a 12-months-trailing-average so that you account for the annual cycling apparent in the Keeling curve. Anway, that would just be a matter of logistics.

One (amongst many) advantage of this sort of numeric approach - it  could help disabuse the public confusion w.r.t. to the "atmospheric CO2 stock" vs. "CO2 emissions flow". I think this remains a significant stumbling block to motivating near-term change. People hear "we need to reduce emissions by 80% by 2050" and even if they accept that, there is a natural tendency to hope that means "business as usual" for, say, the next 25 years, and then rapid cuts much later. In fact, because it is a stock problem, not a flow problem, we know that the reduction path is at least as important as the eventual emissions level. By netting out the "concern" to a single concentration/stock number, it could help focus collective efforts and understanding. (The findings of the Sterman-Sweeney paper "Understanding public complacency about climate change: adults’ mental models of climate change violate conservation of matter" still unfortunately apply...).

Another advantage of such a metric: It would drive home the global and interdependent nature of the problem... Unlike measures like "air quality index" which can often be mitigated locally, it would be clear that for well-mixed, long-life GHG's there will be no such option to isolate ourselves...   

Like some commenters above, I am not so sure that "delayer-1000" itself is going to catch on. But I might encourage Joe to even consider extending the taxonomy in his writing - e.g. gambler-550, pragmatist-450, realist-330, etc. Again, the adjectives are potentially emotionally-loaded, and I just toss them out as examples, but I think that adding a number to the descriptor would help reinforce the importance of "concentrations" and cut through a lot of other mumbo-jumbo when trying to interpret what a specific speaker/policy is recommending.

I am not sure what the research says about people responding to these kinds of numeric campaigns... i.e. do they really know what their BMI, blood pressure, cholesterol level, savings rate, etc. "should be"? Do they act on that knowledge? I don't know, but maybe Joe and JMG are onto something...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you were to try to etch a &#8220;ppm concentration&#8221; number on the public&#8217;s consciousness, as JMG is suggesting, I think it would have to be modified to something like a 12-months-trailing-average so that you account for the annual cycling apparent in the Keeling curve. Anway, that would just be a matter of logistics.</p>
<p>One (amongst many) advantage of this sort of numeric approach - it  could help disabuse the public confusion w.r.t. to the &#8220;atmospheric CO2 stock&#8221; vs. &#8220;CO2 emissions flow&#8221;. I think this remains a significant stumbling block to motivating near-term change. People hear &#8220;we need to reduce emissions by 80% by 2050&#8243; and even if they accept that, there is a natural tendency to hope that means &#8220;business as usual&#8221; for, say, the next 25 years, and then rapid cuts much later. In fact, because it is a stock problem, not a flow problem, we know that the reduction path is at least as important as the eventual emissions level. By netting out the &#8220;concern&#8221; to a single concentration/stock number, it could help focus collective efforts and understanding. (The findings of the Sterman-Sweeney paper &#8220;Understanding public complacency about climate change: adults’ mental models of climate change violate conservation of matter&#8221; still unfortunately apply&#8230;).</p>
<p>Another advantage of such a metric: It would drive home the global and interdependent nature of the problem&#8230; Unlike measures like &#8220;air quality index&#8221; which can often be mitigated locally, it would be clear that for well-mixed, long-life GHG&#8217;s there will be no such option to isolate ourselves&#8230;   </p>
<p>Like some commenters above, I am not so sure that &#8220;delayer-1000&#8243; itself is going to catch on. But I might encourage Joe to even consider extending the taxonomy in his writing - e.g. gambler-550, pragmatist-450, realist-330, etc. Again, the adjectives are potentially emotionally-loaded, and I just toss them out as examples, but I think that adding a number to the descriptor would help reinforce the importance of &#8220;concentrations&#8221; and cut through a lot of other mumbo-jumbo when trying to interpret what a specific speaker/policy is recommending.</p>
<p>I am not sure what the research says about people responding to these kinds of numeric campaigns&#8230; i.e. do they really know what their BMI, blood pressure, cholesterol level, savings rate, etc. &#8220;should be&#8221;? Do they act on that knowledge? I don&#8217;t know, but maybe Joe and JMG are onto something&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9326</link>
		<author>David B. Benson</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9326</guid>
					<description>tidal --- Tha's a good idea.  However 'realist' is

realist-280

while 'optimist' is

optimist-315

and, IMO, anything above that is

destructionist--XXX</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tidal &#8212; Tha&#8217;s a good idea.  However &#8216;realist&#8217; is</p>
<p>realist-280</p>
<p>while &#8216;optimist&#8217; is</p>
<p>optimist-315</p>
<p>and, IMO, anything above that is</p>
<p>destructionist&#8211;XXX</p>
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		<title>By: Paul K</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9327</link>
		<author>Paul K</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9327</guid>
					<description>My Action Plan for replacing carbon based energy has the goal of a 5 -10% per decade replacement by alternatives to achieve 80% replacement by century's end. The first governmental action I recommend is the elimination of capital gains taxes on alternatives investment to maximize the infusion of venture capital. Subsidies for grid expansion and improvement will be needed to allow for the enormous increase in transmission capacity required in an "all-electric" future. 
Each energy use sector, manufacturing, transportation, residential and commercial electrical power, and heating and cooling should have its own focus. Joe says that transportation is the most problematic, but I think the greatest challenge is replacing heating oil and natural gas in the Northeastern and Midwestern large cities. I have no idea how this can be accomplished and welcome input from anyone who does. Hybrid and plug in cars will certainly push gas only vehicles out of the marketplace. A near total changeover will take 20 - 25 years as many purchase only used cars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My Action Plan for replacing carbon based energy has the goal of a 5 -10% per decade replacement by alternatives to achieve 80% replacement by century&#8217;s end. The first governmental action I recommend is the elimination of capital gains taxes on alternatives investment to maximize the infusion of venture capital. Subsidies for grid expansion and improvement will be needed to allow for the enormous increase in transmission capacity required in an &#8220;all-electric&#8221; future.<br />
Each energy use sector, manufacturing, transportation, residential and commercial electrical power, and heating and cooling should have its own focus. Joe says that transportation is the most problematic, but I think the greatest challenge is replacing heating oil and natural gas in the Northeastern and Midwestern large cities. I have no idea how this can be accomplished and welcome input from anyone who does. Hybrid and plug in cars will certainly push gas only vehicles out of the marketplace. A near total changeover will take 20 - 25 years as many purchase only used cars.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul K</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9329</link>
		<author>Paul K</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9329</guid>
					<description>David B. Benson,
Have you seen this &lt;a href="http://www.newstin.com/sim/us/46429002/en-010-001076239" rel="nofollow"&gt;breaking news&lt;/a&gt; about a new biomass-to-ethanol process that takes advantage of a bacteria found in the Chesapeake Bay?

Ronald,
Might not be a good idea to "Let them name themselves". Think of the problems if they picked Protectors of the Planet or Humanities Last Hope. Just kidding, but it is true that in political contests the winning strategy is  to define the other person before they can define themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David B. Benson,<br />
Have you seen this <a href="http://www.newstin.com/sim/us/46429002/en-010-001076239" rel="nofollow">breaking news</a> about a new biomass-to-ethanol process that takes advantage of a bacteria found in the Chesapeake Bay?</p>
<p>Ronald,<br />
Might not be a good idea to &#8220;Let them name themselves&#8221;. Think of the problems if they picked Protectors of the Planet or Humanities Last Hope. Just kidding, but it is true that in political contests the winning strategy is  to define the other person before they can define themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna Haynes</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9330</link>
		<author>Anna Haynes</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9330</guid>
					<description>I like Mike #1's "fatalists".  Though I wish there was a way to put ostriches in there too.
Destructionists good, but long.

Sociopaths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Mike #1&#8217;s &#8220;fatalists&#8221;.  Though I wish there was a way to put ostriches in there too.<br />
Destructionists good, but long.</p>
<p>Sociopaths.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveL</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9331</link>
		<author>SteveL</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9331</guid>
					<description>They give Skeptics a bad name.
They may be in denial, they may be addicted to BAU, but let's
KISS and make up a new term:  
They are CCC, Climate Change Cheerleaders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They give Skeptics a bad name.<br />
They may be in denial, they may be addicted to BAU, but let&#8217;s<br />
KISS and make up a new term:<br />
They are CCC, Climate Change Cheerleaders.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna Haynes</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9333</link>
		<author>Anna Haynes</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9333</guid>
					<description>Off topic, but any chance you could put up a post soliciting discussion on what we as individuals can do to raise awareness and counter the forces of evil?  Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see *anywhere* online for this.  I have ideas but could &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; use some help getting them implemented.

To give one example - our community access TV station played a global warming denialist propaganda piece &lt;i&gt;47 times&lt;/i&gt; in the last 6 months.  But I can buy the DVD of Naomi Oreskes' &lt;a href="http://www.uctv.tv/search-details.asp?showID=13459" rel="nofollow"&gt;American Denial of Global Warming&lt;/a&gt; talk for 25 bucks, and the local TV folks say that if I bring it in, and we have permission to rebroadcast it, they'll put it on the air.

But my attempts to contact UCSD-TV to find out if purchasers of their DVDs &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; have permission to air them, has not gotten any response (at least not one that I've received).  And I asked Scripps Communications about this and didn't get a response either.

Can anyone find out whether we have such permissions?  Please????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off topic, but any chance you could put up a post soliciting discussion on what we as individuals can do to raise awareness and counter the forces of evil?  Maybe I&#8217;m missing something but I don&#8217;t see *anywhere* online for this.  I have ideas but could <i>really</i> use some help getting them implemented.</p>
<p>To give one example - our community access TV station played a global warming denialist propaganda piece <i>47 times</i> in the last 6 months.  But I can buy the DVD of Naomi Oreskes&#8217; <a href="http://www.uctv.tv/search-details.asp?showID=13459" rel="nofollow">American Denial of Global Warming</a> talk for 25 bucks, and the local TV folks say that if I bring it in, and we have permission to rebroadcast it, they&#8217;ll put it on the air.</p>
<p>But my attempts to contact UCSD-TV to find out if purchasers of their DVDs <i>do</i> have permission to air them, has not gotten any response (at least not one that I&#8217;ve received).  And I asked Scripps Communications about this and didn&#8217;t get a response either.</p>
<p>Can anyone find out whether we have such permissions?  Please????</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9334</link>
		<author>Ronald</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9334</guid>
					<description>I have come up with a name.   

How about Climate truthers.

I was trying to think of a group that is like the deniers and then steal some of what they call themselves.   I then thought of  ‘911 for truth’ or groups in that ‘industry’ and that they had many similarities to the global warming deniers.

1)  They’ll take some innocent fact and twist it to make some seemingly plausible but untrue claim.  

       The twin towers and building 7 came down not from the fires in the buildings, but from explosive charges set by some government group.

       Instead of the Pentagon being crashed into by a jet liner that was flown by the    highjackers, it was crashed into by another plane and explosives went off to make it   look like a jet airliner did it.

List some of the 911 for truth claims that aren’t true.
List some of the Climate Truthers claims that aren’t true. 


2)  There was an official commission that looked into the problem, but of course it is untrustworthy and had to be part of the government conspiracy against the people.  
        The 911 commission for the 911 crisis
        IPCC for global warming.

3)  Mainstream scientists and others have examined their theories and have largely debunked them.   
        List group that has debunked 911 for truth.   Mechanics Illustrated has done a nice job with the 911 for truth group.
        List group that has debunked; IPCC and Realclimate.com for global warming.


This is just a quick list of similarities, I’ll leave it for a professional writer to do a better job with it.   I think it should be considered and do what you can with it.   Maybe it will stick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have come up with a name.   </p>
<p>How about Climate truthers.</p>
<p>I was trying to think of a group that is like the deniers and then steal some of what they call themselves.   I then thought of  ‘911 for truth’ or groups in that ‘industry’ and that they had many similarities to the global warming deniers.</p>
<p>1)  They’ll take some innocent fact and twist it to make some seemingly plausible but untrue claim.  </p>
<p>       The twin towers and building 7 came down not from the fires in the buildings, but from explosive charges set by some government group.</p>
<p>       Instead of the Pentagon being crashed into by a jet liner that was flown by the    highjackers, it was crashed into by another plane and explosives went off to make it   look like a jet airliner did it.</p>
<p>List some of the 911 for truth claims that aren’t true.<br />
List some of the Climate Truthers claims that aren’t true. </p>
<p>2)  There was an official commission that looked into the problem, but of course it is untrustworthy and had to be part of the government conspiracy against the people.<br />
        The 911 commission for the 911 crisis<br />
        IPCC for global warming.</p>
<p>3)  Mainstream scientists and others have examined their theories and have largely debunked them.<br />
        List group that has debunked 911 for truth.   Mechanics Illustrated has done a nice job with the 911 for truth group.<br />
        List group that has debunked; IPCC and Realclimate.com for global warming.</p>
<p>This is just a quick list of similarities, I’ll leave it for a professional writer to do a better job with it.   I think it should be considered and do what you can with it.   Maybe it will stick.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna Haynes</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9335</link>
		<author>Anna Haynes</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9335</guid>
					<description>Another example - someone recently suggested facilitating behavior&#38;attitude change by pointing out that a gas-profligate driver is serving as OPEC's bitch.   So, what  should the slogan be?  Where's the artwork?  How can we get the word out?

Where are the other images that should be ubiquitous?  Where are the artists and computer geeks who could create them?  (I think &lt;a href="http://globalwarmingart.com/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Global Warming Art&lt;/a&gt; should have a "round earth" temperature-projections image, but the person I asked about it didn't respond.  (have spam filters developed an appetite for climate-related email?)

This is worth getting off our butts for, isn't it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another example - someone recently suggested facilitating behavior&amp;attitude change by pointing out that a gas-profligate driver is serving as OPEC&#8217;s bitch.   So, what  should the slogan be?  Where&#8217;s the artwork?  How can we get the word out?</p>
<p>Where are the other images that should be ubiquitous?  Where are the artists and computer geeks who could create them?  (I think <a href="http://globalwarmingart.com/" rel="nofollow">Global Warming Art</a> should have a &#8220;round earth&#8221; temperature-projections image, but the person I asked about it didn&#8217;t respond.  (have spam filters developed an appetite for climate-related email?)</p>
<p>This is worth getting off our butts for, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Vance Wagner</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9336</link>
		<author>Vance Wagner</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9336</guid>
					<description>If you want to conjure the Terminator (T-1000), you should call them "D-1000s."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to conjure the Terminator (T-1000), you should call them &#8220;D-1000s.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Tobis</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9337</link>
		<author>Michael Tobis</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 04:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9337</guid>
					<description>I recall the term "denialist" being proposed in sci.environment (back when it was still somewhat useful and interesting). I don't recall that anyone mentioned the connection to "holocaust denier". Indeed, references to the holocaust were considered very poor form on usenet! (See "Godwin's Law") As a descendant of Nazi holocaust victims m yself I would not countenance such an explicit link, but I bought into "denialist".

It is interesting to note that biologist confronted with pseudo-scientific attacks on evolution also call their opponents "denialists". There was some overlap between the usenet communities so I;m not sure if the nomenclature was independently developed.

It is nevertheless the case that anyone dealing with truths they find sufficiently inconvenient relies on a comparable array of tactics to befuddle the sympathetic and ill-informed audience. The use of these tactics, rather than the underlying purpose, reasonably needs a name and "denialism" is a good one.

That said, it may in certain circumstances provide an unnecessary distraction. I have proposed "delusionist" as an alternative term. It has some nice features.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recall the term &#8220;denialist&#8221; being proposed in sci.environment (back when it was still somewhat useful and interesting). I don&#8217;t recall that anyone mentioned the connection to &#8220;holocaust denier&#8221;. Indeed, references to the holocaust were considered very poor form on usenet! (See &#8220;Godwin&#8217;s Law&#8221;) As a descendant of Nazi holocaust victims m yself I would not countenance such an explicit link, but I bought into &#8220;denialist&#8221;.</p>
<p>It is interesting to note that biologist confronted with pseudo-scientific attacks on evolution also call their opponents &#8220;denialists&#8221;. There was some overlap between the usenet communities so I;m not sure if the nomenclature was independently developed.</p>
<p>It is nevertheless the case that anyone dealing with truths they find sufficiently inconvenient relies on a comparable array of tactics to befuddle the sympathetic and ill-informed audience. The use of these tactics, rather than the underlying purpose, reasonably needs a name and &#8220;denialism&#8221; is a good one.</p>
<p>That said, it may in certain circumstances provide an unnecessary distraction. I have proposed &#8220;delusionist&#8221; as an alternative term. It has some nice features.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Lazen</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9338</link>
		<author>Mark Lazen</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9338</guid>
					<description>I agree with other commenters--delayer-1000 is too obtuse and requires explanation. the right term will have to just feel right.

It's tough to come up with a single word for these people, because their recalcitrance comes from a variety of sources. Some don't believe because it conflicts with their religious sensibilities. Others simply are too concrete; they can't follow the thread of scientific abstractions that say because we know A, B, and C, we can predict D will occur. Still others are unconsciously motivated by greed and hedonism--they can't believe because then they'd have to give up their yacht.

And some are just cussed, sour, contrarian mules. Come to think of it. THAT is the quality they all have in common--stubborness. They simply are consciously or unconsciously opposed to reevaluating their existing outlook.

So I nominate something like the "obstinates," the "intractables" or the "stiff-necks." Or maybe "Dead-enders" is best of all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with other commenters&#8211;delayer-1000 is too obtuse and requires explanation. the right term will have to just feel right.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s tough to come up with a single word for these people, because their recalcitrance comes from a variety of sources. Some don&#8217;t believe because it conflicts with their religious sensibilities. Others simply are too concrete; they can&#8217;t follow the thread of scientific abstractions that say because we know A, B, and C, we can predict D will occur. Still others are unconsciously motivated by greed and hedonism&#8211;they can&#8217;t believe because then they&#8217;d have to give up their yacht.</p>
<p>And some are just cussed, sour, contrarian mules. Come to think of it. THAT is the quality they all have in common&#8211;stubborness. They simply are consciously or unconsciously opposed to reevaluating their existing outlook.</p>
<p>So I nominate something like the &#8220;obstinates,&#8221; the &#8220;intractables&#8221; or the &#8220;stiff-necks.&#8221; Or maybe &#8220;Dead-enders&#8221; is best of all.</p>
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		<title>By: JMG</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9340</link>
		<author>JMG</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9340</guid>
					<description>If you think CO2e changes too slowly to be a useful metric for grabbing attention to the problem and focusing attention on it, let me introduce a new idea for a new SI unit:

The Hansen (H) -- the amount of atmospheric greenhouse gases of all types that is equivalent to 1/1000th of a ppm of atmospheric CO2.  So if current CO2e is 420.nnn ppm, then it's 420,nnn H, where H inexorably rises through time.

I thought about the Keeling curve (and that might be another worthwhile name -- Keeling units) and decided that there was some value to letting people see that, while it goes up and down through the year, the downs are never as low year to year ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you think CO2e changes too slowly to be a useful metric for grabbing attention to the problem and focusing attention on it, let me introduce a new idea for a new SI unit:</p>
<p>The Hansen (H) &#8212; the amount of atmospheric greenhouse gases of all types that is equivalent to 1/1000th of a ppm of atmospheric CO2.  So if current CO2e is 420.nnn ppm, then it&#8217;s 420,nnn H, where H inexorably rises through time.</p>
<p>I thought about the Keeling curve (and that might be another worthwhile name &#8212; Keeling units) and decided that there was some value to letting people see that, while it goes up and down through the year, the downs are never as low year to year &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anna Haynes</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9342</link>
		<author>Anna Haynes</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9342</guid>
					<description>Michael T's "delusionists" gets my vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael T&#8217;s &#8220;delusionists&#8221; gets my vote.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Alt</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9348</link>
		<author>Jay Alt</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9348</guid>
					<description>Michael writes-
&lt;i&gt;. . .  relies on a comparable array of tactics to befuddle the sympathetic and ill-informed audience.   The use of these tactics, rather than the underlying purpose, reasonably needs a name and “denialism” is a good one.&lt;/i&gt;

There's a good name I've heard Don Wuebbles use for people using those tactics -  "confusionists"   

Joe -
I think "delayers" is excellent in 'wrong-footing' the opposition. 
http://www.allwords.com/word-wrongfooted.html
It needs some context, without which it might be misunderstood to mean delaying climate change.  Those practitioners will claim they're delaying unnecessary action and so might embrace the name.    Perhaps an adjective such as 'dire' or 'dangerous' could help.

I'd hoped for more along these lines from the Rockbridge Institute but their efforts are infrequent.  Joe Brewer sometimes writes about framing and climate.   Chipping sharp tools from pieces of mental flint is hard work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael writes-<br />
<i>. . .  relies on a comparable array of tactics to befuddle the sympathetic and ill-informed audience.   The use of these tactics, rather than the underlying purpose, reasonably needs a name and “denialism” is a good one.</i></p>
<p>There&#8217;s a good name I&#8217;ve heard Don Wuebbles use for people using those tactics -  &#8220;confusionists&#8221;   </p>
<p>Joe -<br />
I think &#8220;delayers&#8221; is excellent in &#8216;wrong-footing&#8217; the opposition.<br />
<a href="http://www.allwords.com/word-wrongfooted.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.allwords.com/word-wrongfooted.html</a><br />
It needs some context, without which it might be misunderstood to mean delaying climate change.  Those practitioners will claim they&#8217;re delaying unnecessary action and so might embrace the name.    Perhaps an adjective such as &#8216;dire&#8217; or &#8216;dangerous&#8217; could help.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d hoped for more along these lines from the Rockbridge Institute but their efforts are infrequent.  Joe Brewer sometimes writes about framing and climate.   Chipping sharp tools from pieces of mental flint is hard work.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9608</link>
		<author>Martin</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/10/media-enable-denier-spin-3-please-stop-calling-them-skeptics/#comment-9608</guid>
					<description>&#62; So what to call them?

My old friend Vladimir Ilyitch used to call them "useful fools".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; So what to call them?</p>
<p>My old friend Vladimir Ilyitch used to call them &#8220;useful fools&#8221;.</p>
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