Comments on: OT: If worse comes to worst http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Sat, 22 Nov 2008 07:03:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1 By: Robert http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11402 Robert Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:40:38 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11402 This blog is getting really silly. Call me old fashioned, I don't think correct grammar is going to make much difference to climate change. This blog is getting really silly. Call me old fashioned, I don’t think correct grammar is going to make much difference to climate change.

]]> By: Joe http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11406 Joe Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:04:27 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11406 I said this was Off Topic. Sorry if it wasn't interesting to you. I said this was Off Topic. Sorry if it wasn’t interesting to you.

]]> By: High Test http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11423 High Test Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:40:34 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11423 Robert, You know you're in good hands when an author is fussy about usage. Whether you agree or disagree with their stand, the meaning will be clearer. The climate change discussion needs all the clarity that can be summoned. Robert,
You know you’re in good hands when an author is fussy about usage.
Whether you agree or disagree with their stand, the meaning will be clearer. The climate change discussion needs all the clarity that can be summoned.

]]> By: JMG http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11425 JMG Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:17:55 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11425 Actually both of you are wrong -- the original phrase originated in the University of Wisconsin Rathskeller, the first official university student union to sell beer to students in the US. The phrase we use today is a mishearing about the morning after effects of too many beers and brats -- when wurst comes to worse. Actually both of you are wrong — the original phrase originated in the University of Wisconsin Rathskeller, the first official university student union to sell beer to students in the US. The phrase we use today is a mishearing about the morning after effects of too many beers and brats — when wurst comes to worse.

]]> By: Chester http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11426 Chester Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:43:58 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11426 As a writer, I care about this stuff. And worst comes to worst doesn't make any sense. As a writer, I care about this stuff. And worst comes to worst doesn’t make any sense.

]]> By: russ http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11429 russ Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:27:50 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11429 Actually, I was disappointed to read that "worse comes to worst" is idiomatic as well, since I thought at first it was Joe's own gloss on a cliche. (Using any cliche in formal writing is disreputable.) Actually, I was disappointed to read that “worse comes to worst” is idiomatic as well, since I thought at first it was Joe’s own gloss on a cliche.
(Using any cliche in formal writing is disreputable.)

]]> By: Joe http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11453 Joe Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:41:01 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11453 Disrepubatable yes, except, I think, for the sake of (black) humor. Disrepubatable yes, except, I think, for the sake of (black) humor.

]]> By: joet http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11491 joet Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:46:58 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11491 One thing I don't understand (and it has nothing to do with the language) is why we are not frantically planning what to do in a changed climate world, when it seems to be highly likely that none of our carbon reduction plans will do what we want them to do. One thing I don’t understand (and it has nothing to do with the language) is why we are not frantically planning what to do in a changed climate world, when it seems to be highly likely that none of our carbon reduction plans will do what we want them to do.

]]> By: Joe http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11493 Joe Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:16:40 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11493 We have time for adaptation. But we must start mitigation now, if we are going to keep impacts mild enough so that adaptation is actually meaningful. I don't really see how you adapt to sea levels rising 6 inches a decade for hundreds of years -- but I'm sure our grandchildren will figure out something. We have time for adaptation. But we must start mitigation now, if we are going to keep impacts mild enough so that adaptation is actually meaningful. I don’t really see how you adapt to sea levels rising 6 inches a decade for hundreds of years — but I’m sure our grandchildren will figure out something.

]]> By: joet http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11494 joet Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:41:26 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11494 I'm not sure that is good enough. How much mitigation do we need to change and is it even achievable? Given that most green organisations are still talking on the level of 'change a few light bulbs' I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest we're simply not going to do it. I’m not sure that is good enough. How much mitigation do we need to change and is it even achievable? Given that most green organisations are still talking on the level of ‘change a few light bulbs’ I don’t think it is unreasonable to suggest we’re simply not going to do it.

]]> By: joet http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11495 joet Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:42:49 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11495 PS, I know that is what you've been writing about here. Important though it is, I think it is already a lost cause. PS, I know that is what you’ve been writing about here. Important though it is, I think it is already a lost cause.

]]> By: Joe http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11498 Joe Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:17:24 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11498 It definitely is NOT a lost cause yet. Now you are probably right that avoiding catastrophic warming is not in the cards politically -- but as long as it is still possible technologically and economically, I think all of us have a moral obligation to do we can to bring about the necessary political change. It definitely is NOT a lost cause yet. Now you are probably right that avoiding catastrophic warming is not in the cards politically — but as long as it is still possible technologically and economically, I think all of us have a moral obligation to do we can to bring about the necessary political change.

]]> By: joet http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11499 joet Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:19:25 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11499 Good luck with that. I'm going to be planning for the worst. Good luck with that. I’m going to be planning for the worst.

]]> By: Joe http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11501 Joe Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:39:37 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11501 Joet -- What is your age range and do you have kids, if I might ask? Joet — What is your age range and do you have kids, if I might ask?

]]> By: joet http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11573 joet Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:45:21 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11573 Hi, I'm 32 and have a 7 year old daughter. And for the record, I take sacrificial changes to my carbon lifestyle very seriously. But given that even with the changes we've already made, a more than 66% reduction is still needed (and given there are a great number of people who have done almost nothing) I can't see that it can be done. Hi, I’m 32 and have a 7 year old daughter.

And for the record, I take sacrificial changes to my carbon lifestyle very seriously. But given that even with the changes we’ve already made, a more than 66% reduction is still needed (and given there are a great number of people who have done almost nothing) I can’t see that it can be done.

]]> By: Earl Killian http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11595 Earl Killian Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:00:09 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11595 joet, Joe has argued in the past that personal lifestyle changes will not get us where we need to be. Only the actions of governments can make a sufficiently large change to avoid catastrophe. The most important thing you can do is help elect politicians in your country that will steer a course to zero/negative GHG emissions. joet, Joe has argued in the past that personal lifestyle changes will not get us where we need to be. Only the actions of governments can make a sufficiently large change to avoid catastrophe.

The most important thing you can do is help elect politicians in your country that will steer a course to zero/negative GHG emissions.

]]> By: joet http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11605 joet Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:52:13 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11605 That isn't going to happen. Have you seen how high up the agenda climate change is in the presidential race? That isn’t going to happen. Have you seen how high up the agenda climate change is in the presidential race?

]]> By: Earl Killian http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11610 Earl Killian Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:43:00 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/22/ot-if-worse-comes-to-worst/#comment-11610 joet, I am concerned abut that, though I think the Senate is where things matter. It takes 67 votes to pass a treaty, and 60 to pass normal legislation. Currently there are not enough climate concerned Senators to pass something even if the next President tries to implement what he or she promised (and look what happened in 2000 to what was promised). However, as unlikely as it is to happen, I think that individual sacrifices making a difference is even less likely. This brings to mind what Václav Havel wrote about hope in Disturbing the Peace (1986): 'Hope, in this deep and powerful sense, is not the same as joy that things are going well, or willingness to invest in enterprises that are obviously headed for early success, but rather, an ability to work for something because it is good, not just because it stands a chance to succeed. The more unpropitious the situation in which we demonstrate hope, the deeper that hope is. Hope is definitely not the same thing as optimism. It is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out. …' He goes on to talk about how people eventually affect their government, even though government is set up to be insulated from the people: 'I have never fixed my hopes there [in the sphere of power]; I’ve always been more interested in what was happening “below,” in what could be expected from “below,” what could be won there, and what defended. All power is power over someone, and it always somehow responds, usually unwittingly rather than deliberately, to the state of mind and the behavior of those it rules over. One can always find in the behavior of power, a reflection of what is going on “below.”' Sounds like a motto for bloggers... :-) joet, I am concerned abut that, though I think the Senate is where things matter. It takes 67 votes to pass a treaty, and 60 to pass normal legislation. Currently there are not enough climate concerned Senators to pass something even if the next President tries to implement what he or she promised (and look what happened in 2000 to what was promised).

However, as unlikely as it is to happen, I think that individual sacrifices making a difference is even less likely. This brings to mind what Václav Havel wrote about hope in Disturbing the Peace (1986):

‘Hope, in this deep and powerful sense, is not the same as joy that things are going well, or willingness to invest in enterprises that are obviously headed for early success, but rather, an ability to work for something because it is good, not just because it stands a chance to succeed. The more unpropitious the situation in which we demonstrate hope, the deeper that hope is. Hope is definitely not the same thing as optimism. It is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out. …’

He goes on to talk about how people eventually affect their government, even though government is set up to be insulated from the people:

‘I have never fixed my hopes there [in the sphere of power]; I’ve always been more interested in what was happening “below,” in what could be expected from “below,” what could be won there, and what defended. All power is power over someone, and it always somehow responds, usually unwittingly rather than deliberately, to the state of mind and the behavior of those it rules over. One can always find in the behavior of power, a reflection of what is going on “below.”’

Sounds like a motto for bloggers… :-)

]]>