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	<title>Comments on: Recycled Energy &#8212; A core climate solution</title>
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: JMG</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11518</link>
		<author>JMG</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11518</guid>
					<description>He my hero.  I wish he would update his book and put it out in paperback at cost to help people wake up.  As I posted at Grist, a wise man once noted that, for every thousand hacking at the branches of a problem, there's one striking at the root, and Tom Casten is one of those.  It would be nice to see him get a Goldman Prize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He my hero.  I wish he would update his book and put it out in paperback at cost to help people wake up.  As I posted at Grist, a wise man once noted that, for every thousand hacking at the branches of a problem, there&#8217;s one striking at the root, and Tom Casten is one of those.  It would be nice to see him get a Goldman Prize.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Levenson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11519</link>
		<author>Ken Levenson</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11519</guid>
					<description>So basic and so amazing.

Casten's blog looks like an ongoing wellspring too:
http://blog.recycled-energy.com/2008/04/24/generate-energy-locally-recycle-whenever-possible/

And I'm not exactly sure how it dovetails - but this McKinsey report reassures the capitalist pig ;) in all of us, that there's lots of money to be made too:
http://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/publications/Investing_Energy_Productivity/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So basic and so amazing.</p>
<p>Casten&#8217;s blog looks like an ongoing wellspring too:<br />
<a href="http://blog.recycled-energy.com/2008/04/24/generate-energy-locally-recycle-whenever-possible/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.recycled-energy.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2008/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>04/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>24/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>generate-energy-locally-recycle-whenever-possible/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span></a></p>
<p>And I&#8217;m not exactly sure how it dovetails - but this McKinsey report reassures the capitalist pig <img src='http://climateprogress.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> in all of us, that there&#8217;s lots of money to be made too:<br />
<a href="http://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/publications/Investing_Energy_Productivity/" rel="nofollow">http://www.mckinsey.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>mgi/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>publications/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>Investing_Energy_Productivity/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span></a></p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11522</link>
		<author>David B. Benson</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11522</guid>
					<description>Great.  Do it.  But don't over-hype it.  The costs of transporting the coal the extra distance may well be the same or slightly larger than the electric power losses saved.

And oh yes.  Be sure to build coal reactors which are capable of co-firing biomass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great.  Do it.  But don&#8217;t over-hype it.  The costs of transporting the coal the extra distance may well be the same or slightly larger than the electric power losses saved.</p>
<p>And oh yes.  Be sure to build coal reactors which are capable of co-firing biomass.</p>
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		<title>By: Harold Pierce Jr</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11541</link>
		<author>Harold Pierce Jr</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11541</guid>
					<description>Heating quartz and carbon (from coal via coke) in an electric furnace produces the abrasive silicon carbide (aka Carborundum) not silicon.  Silicon carbide is one of the hardest of common materials and is used extensively as an abrasive for cutting and polishing just about anything espescially metals. stone and ceramics. The only substance it won't cut is diamond.

Pure crystalline silicon carbide is the gemstone moissanite which is named after Henri Moissan, who found small amounts in fragments from the meteror than formed the large crater in Arizona.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heating quartz and carbon (from coal via coke) in an electric furnace produces the abrasive silicon carbide (aka Carborundum) not silicon.  Silicon carbide is one of the hardest of common materials and is used extensively as an abrasive for cutting and polishing just about anything espescially metals. stone and ceramics. The only substance it won&#8217;t cut is diamond.</p>
<p>Pure crystalline silicon carbide is the gemstone moissanite which is named after Henri Moissan, who found small amounts in fragments from the meteror than formed the large crater in Arizona.</p>
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		<title>By: Eli Rabett</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11564</link>
		<author>Eli Rabett</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 03:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11564</guid>
					<description>I think if you build boilers that can handle multiple fuels they are not as efficient as those which burn one fuel.  Even within coal, you can gain a bit of efficiency by building a plant which is optimized for a particular type (anthracite, bituminous, low sulfur, etc.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think if you build boilers that can handle multiple fuels they are not as efficient as those which burn one fuel.  Even within coal, you can gain a bit of efficiency by building a plant which is optimized for a particular type (anthracite, bituminous, low sulfur, etc.)</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11600</link>
		<author>David B. Benson</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11600</guid>
					<description>Torrified wood is suffciently similar to low sulfer bituminous coal that fluidized bed coal reactors accomodate it with only minor operating adjustments.

Most places, anthracite is too precious to just burn.  It is metalurgical grade coking coal, largely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Torrified wood is suffciently similar to low sulfer bituminous coal that fluidized bed coal reactors accomodate it with only minor operating adjustments.</p>
<p>Most places, anthracite is too precious to just burn.  It is metalurgical grade coking coal, largely.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger C</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11601</link>
		<author>Roger C</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11601</guid>
					<description>Tthere are two problems with this approach that were not mentioned.  

In order to build the cogeneration facility you are going to have to build in somebody's back yard.  The regulatory process to get anything built is difficult but to get something built in any major urban area it is excruciating because there are so many people who get affected.  Moreover, because most major urban areas are air quality non-attainment areas you either have to add all sorts of additional and expensive pollution control equipment (that will surely excite the neighbors) or use natural gas for fuel.  That is a problem because fuel diversity helps reduce cost and improve reliability.  

As a result, I don't think the entire reason that this isn't used more is because of the utility monopolies and even if those legal impediments are removed that this will be implemented as widely as advocates hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tthere are two problems with this approach that were not mentioned.  </p>
<p>In order to build the cogeneration facility you are going to have to build in somebody&#8217;s back yard.  The regulatory process to get anything built is difficult but to get something built in any major urban area it is excruciating because there are so many people who get affected.  Moreover, because most major urban areas are air quality non-attainment areas you either have to add all sorts of additional and expensive pollution control equipment (that will surely excite the neighbors) or use natural gas for fuel.  That is a problem because fuel diversity helps reduce cost and improve reliability.  </p>
<p>As a result, I don&#8217;t think the entire reason that this isn&#8217;t used more is because of the utility monopolies and even if those legal impediments are removed that this will be implemented as widely as advocates hope.</p>
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		<title>By: Earl Killian</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11603</link>
		<author>Earl Killian</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11603</guid>
					<description>Roger C, I believe one idea is to co-locate large heat-needing industrial facilities next to power plants (which are usually not in somebody's backyard).

For smaller heat users, it is also possible to put molten carbonate or solid oxide fuel cells in an industrial facility and generate heat (they both operate over 600C so heat is readily available).  These run directly off of natural gas, and generate extremely low emissions of everything but CO2.  Here's an example:
http://www.fuelcellenergy.com/dfc3000.php
According to their FAQ, 'DFC power plants have also been designated as "Ultra-Clean" by the California Air Resources Board (CARB), and exceed all 2007 CARB standards.'</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger C, I believe one idea is to co-locate large heat-needing industrial facilities next to power plants (which are usually not in somebody&#8217;s backyard).</p>
<p>For smaller heat users, it is also possible to put molten carbonate or solid oxide fuel cells in an industrial facility and generate heat (they both operate over 600C so heat is readily available).  These run directly off of natural gas, and generate extremely low emissions of everything but CO2.  Here&#8217;s an example:<br />
<a href="http://www.fuelcellenergy.com/dfc3000.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.fuelcellenergy.com/dfc3000.php</a><br />
According to their FAQ, &#8216;DFC power plants have also been designated as &#8220;Ultra-Clean&#8221; by the California Air Resources Board (CARB), and exceed all 2007 CARB standards.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: hapa</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11632</link>
		<author>hapa</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11632</guid>
					<description>as i just commented at the grist blog, the casten's financial model has them buying the entire energy facility -- older, local, so not CCS -- on a 20-year mortgage, making them part of the new problem: fans of a permanent transition economy. they're well-set to take advantage of carbon trading and the lose money on their bet if the reduction curve tightens or isn't tradeable.

if we want to phase out fossil fuels before 2030, we need to apply this kind of efficiency to critical infrastructure while we figure out how to replace it. take casten's idea, not his advice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as i just commented at the grist blog, the casten&#8217;s financial model has them buying the entire energy facility &#8212; older, local, so not CCS &#8212; on a 20-year mortgage, making them part of the new problem: fans of a permanent transition economy. they&#8217;re well-set to take advantage of carbon trading and the lose money on their bet if the reduction curve tightens or isn&#8217;t tradeable.</p>
<p>if we want to phase out fossil fuels before 2030, we need to apply this kind of efficiency to critical infrastructure while we figure out how to replace it. take casten&#8217;s idea, not his advice.</p>
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		<title>By: hotairman</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11783</link>
		<author>hotairman</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-11783</guid>
					<description>I checked out Casten's company's site.  Pretty amazing stuff.  This page puts things in laymen's terms: http://recycled-energy.com/_documents/media-kit/backgrounder.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I checked out Casten&#8217;s company&#8217;s site.  Pretty amazing stuff.  This page puts things in laymen&#8217;s terms: <a href="http://recycled-energy.com/_documents/media-kit/backgrounder.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://recycled-energy.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>_documents/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>media-kit/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>backgrounder.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve Sexton</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-17584</link>
		<author>Steve Sexton</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 01:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/24/recycled-energy-a-core-climate-solution/#comment-17584</guid>
					<description>Check out www.vocgen.com and let me know what you think about my economic solution for industry.  Go CHP!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out <a href="http://www.vocgen.com" rel="nofollow">www.vocgen.com</a> and let me know what you think about my economic solution for industry.  Go CHP!</p>
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