Comments on: Must read: Bush DOE says wind can be 20% of U.S. power by 2030 — with no breakthroughs http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Sun, 08 Nov 2009 09:04:01 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: John Droz, jr http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-13865 John Droz, jr Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:56:50 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-13865 www.wind-watch.org/documents/wp-content/uploads/droz-doecritique.pdf http://www.wind-watch.org/ documents/ wp-content/ uploads/ droz-doecritique.pdf

]]> By: John Droz, jr http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-13864 John Droz, jr Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:56:20 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-13864 To read a more realistic assessment of the DOE report — from an environmentally concerned physicist — see: "DOE + AWEA = DOA" at download the PDF at >. To read a more realistic assessment of the DOE report — from an environmentally concerned physicist — see: “DOE + AWEA = DOA” at download the PDF at >.

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12660 David B. Benson Wed, 14 May 2008 22:25:34 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12660 Somewhat off-topic, but certainly compatible with and complementing wind: http://www.livescience.com/environment/080514-ap-biofuel-sorghum.html entitled "The Latest Biofuel: Sweet Sorghum" While a food, most people prefer other substance4s to sweet sorghum. It needs less NPK than corn. The converstion to ethanol is as efficient as sugarcane. Unlike sugarcane, it can be grown almost anywhere in the U.S. and up into Canada. Somewhat off-topic, but certainly compatible with and complementing wind:

http://www.livescience.com/ environment/ 080514-ap-biofuel-sorghum.html

entitled “The Latest Biofuel: Sweet Sorghum”

While a food, most people prefer other substance4s to sweet sorghum. It needs less NPK than corn. The converstion to ethanol is as efficient as sugarcane. Unlike sugarcane, it can be grown almost anywhere in the U.S. and up into Canada.

]]> By: Paul K http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12656 Paul K Wed, 14 May 2008 21:46:08 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12656 Since transmission is the only thing holding wind back, what is more needed is a tax credit for new transmission. Since transmission is the only thing holding wind back, what is more needed is a tax credit for new transmission.

]]> By: Tom Gray http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12651 Tom Gray Wed, 14 May 2008 20:21:48 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12651 Oh, sorry, should have answered the tax credit question: it's 2 cents/kWh for electricity generated during the first 10 years of operation of a project. Tom Oh, sorry, should have answered the tax credit question: it’s 2 cents/kWh for electricity generated during the first 10 years of operation of a project.

Tom

]]> By: Tom Gray http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12650 Tom Gray Wed, 14 May 2008 20:15:29 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12650 Charlie, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on land being a constraint--I just don't buy it. I'm with you on transmission, though--that IS a major issue that's going to have to be resolved, and it's a hard one that's going to require a lot of work. Paul, the offshore debate is not moot--for one thing, it's possible to site turbines out of sight of land. Offshore has some definite advantages, but it also is more challenging technically and economically. Even so, its time is coming. Regards, Tom Gray www.powerofwind.org www.awea.org Charlie, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on land being a constraint–I just don’t buy it. I’m with you on transmission, though–that IS a major issue that’s going to have to be resolved, and it’s a hard one that’s going to require a lot of work.

Paul, the offshore debate is not moot–for one thing, it’s possible to site turbines out of sight of land. Offshore has some definite advantages, but it also is more challenging technically and economically. Even so, its time is coming.

Regards,
Tom Gray
http://www.powerofwind.org
http://www.awea.org

]]> By: Paul K http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12641 Paul K Wed, 14 May 2008 18:38:23 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12641 What is the current tax credit for wind? The offshore debate is moot. Opposition by even the most ardent global warming alarmists, the Kennedy's e.g., puts it off the table. Transmission is not a problem. It is a process. And yes, it will not proceed automatically. What is the current tax credit for wind?

The offshore debate is moot. Opposition by even the most ardent global warming alarmists, the Kennedy’s e.g., puts it off the table.

Transmission is not a problem. It is a process. And yes, it will not proceed automatically.

]]> By: charlie http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12638 charlie Wed, 14 May 2008 17:15:30 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12638 Tom: The report calls for 50K square KM of LAND based wind turbines, so I think they are using the same estimations as you. And yes, we're a big country. But my point about land costs is that as we increase the number of wind farms, the marginal costs of using land will increase as well. Look at cell towers, which use less land -- and there are only 1.9 million of them -- and the controversy they engender. besides, again, this report is a snow job designed to show 1) we don't need a tax credit for wind; 2) we can avoid the offshore debate and 3) the transmission problems will solve themselves. I think we need to solve all 3 of the above point if you want 20% -- and I'm willing to call this a green snow job. Tom: The report calls for 50K square KM of LAND based wind turbines, so I think they are using the same estimations as you. And yes, we’re a big country. But my point about land costs is that as we increase the number of wind farms, the marginal costs of using land will increase as well. Look at cell towers, which use less land — and there are only 1.9 million of them — and the controversy they engender.

besides, again, this report is a snow job designed to show 1) we don’t need a tax credit for wind; 2) we can avoid the offshore debate and 3) the transmission problems will solve themselves.

I think we need to solve all 3 of the above point if you want 20% — and I’m willing to call this a green snow job.

]]> By: Joe http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12624 Joe Wed, 14 May 2008 02:03:42 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12624 We'll see how many coal plants the Germans build. Not bloody many, I suspect. Still even one new one is bad. We’ll see how many coal plants the Germans build. Not bloody many, I suspect. Still even one new one is bad.

]]> By: Paul K http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12623 Paul K Wed, 14 May 2008 01:47:52 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/12/must-read-bush-doe-says-wind-can-be-20-of-us-power-by-2030-with-no-breakthroughs/#comment-12623 Germany's wind and solar programs are so successful they are building coal plants and warning of disruptions this summer. U.S. wind is doing very well. Germany’s wind and solar programs are so successful they are building coal plants and warning of disruptions this summer. U.S. wind is doing very well.

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