Comments on: Hot rocks are a rockin’ hot climate solution http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Sun, 08 Nov 2009 09:55:22 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: msn nickleri http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-26423 msn nickleri Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:06:53 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-26423 However, water vapor is a positive feedback. As the air warms, the absolute humidity goes up while the relative humidity stays about constant for obvious reasons. However, water vapor is a positive feedback. As the air warms, the absolute humidity goes up while the relative humidity stays about constant for obvious reasons.

]]> By: Theodore http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-25426 Theodore Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:44:12 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-25426 Whether geothermal power is a minor contributor to future energy or a major contributor depends largely on the progress of drilling technology. If you are following the progress of the Gas Technology Institute and others in this business, you will realize that there is great potential for rapid progress in drilling very deep (10 km or more) at reasonable cost. If this can be done (a good bet) we could see geothermal become our #1 source of electricity. The major limitation on drilling depth might be the tendancy of hot rock to flow and crush any hardware you put down the hole. In this case, you could use air (despite it's low heat capacity) to move the heat up to a heat exchanger at the surface. The energy production potential of rock that glows red hot might be commonly available in some areas. Forget about the uncertain prospects of finding hot water or steam at 3000 meters. Go deep. The fires of hell await us. Whether geothermal power is a minor contributor to future energy or a major contributor depends largely on the progress of drilling technology. If you are following the progress of the Gas Technology Institute and others in this business, you will realize that there is great potential for rapid progress in drilling very deep (10 km or more) at reasonable cost. If this can be done (a good bet) we could see geothermal become our #1 source of electricity. The major limitation on drilling depth might be the tendancy of hot rock to flow and crush any hardware you put down the hole. In this case, you could use air (despite it’s low heat capacity) to move the heat up to a heat exchanger at the surface. The energy production potential of rock that glows red hot might be commonly available in some areas. Forget about the uncertain prospects of finding hot water or steam at 3000 meters. Go deep. The fires of hell await us.

]]> By: Richard Mercer http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-22685 Richard Mercer Sat, 22 Nov 2008 04:25:27 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-22685 Jim Eaton I respect your concern for the environmental impact of some solutions, but I have to differ with you when it comes to solar thermal plants in the southwest deserts. I understand that they will have some impact on the desert, which need to be reduced as much as possible. However I also think environmentalists are their own worst enemies at times. It's said that solar thermal could power the whole country using 1% of our southwest deserts. The SciAm article says 2% of available and usable land would do it. But would we be powering the whole country with solar thermal? That's not likely, as we have other power sources, and we also woudn't want to have all our eggs in one basket. If we use 2/3 of 1%, 1/2 of 1% or 1/3 of 1% of the desert lands the impact is not as bad. It seems like all solutions have some environmental impact. There will always be tradeoffs. In this case, I think Joseph Romm is right, when he says that solar thermal with heat storage is the only current renewable technology that can provide base load power to replace coal plants, and on a large scale. Other than the impact on the desert, it's clean. It's low tech, inexpensive and ready to start building. If we want to stop the warming, we need this. It's a solution that can happen much faster than building nuclear plants. Other than conservation, it's probably the single biggest thing we can do right now. And we are missing the boat, while solar thermal companies from other countries are on board. even Abu Dubai Jim Eaton
I respect your concern for the environmental impact of some solutions, but I have to differ with you when it comes to solar thermal plants in the southwest deserts. I understand that they will have some impact on the desert, which need to be reduced as much as possible. However I also think environmentalists are their own worst enemies at times.
It’s said that solar thermal could power the whole country using 1% of our southwest deserts. The SciAm article says 2% of available and usable land would do it.
But would we be powering the whole country with solar thermal? That’s not likely, as we have other power sources, and we also woudn’t want to have all our eggs in one basket.

If we use 2/3 of 1%, 1/2 of 1% or 1/3 of 1% of the desert lands
the impact is not as bad. It seems like all solutions have some environmental impact. There will always be tradeoffs.
In this case, I think Joseph Romm is right, when he says that solar thermal with heat storage is the only current renewable technology that can provide base load power to replace coal plants, and on a large scale. Other than the impact on the desert, it’s clean. It’s low tech, inexpensive and ready to start building. If we want to stop the warming, we need this.
It’s a solution that can happen much faster than building nuclear plants. Other than conservation, it’s probably the single biggest thing we can do right now.

And we are missing the boat, while solar thermal companies from other countries are on board. even Abu Dubai

]]> By: Larry Coleman http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-16753 Larry Coleman Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:11:01 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-16753 As a scientist (physicist) the variety of comments here is surprising. Some writers address the facts and evidence...others are clearly ideologues and turn the facts or cherry-pick their facts to agree with their ideologies. The ideologues know who they are. The rest of us know who they are because they also denigrate those who disagree with them. I recommend reading past them...they add nothing of value. As a scientist (physicist) the variety of comments here is surprising. Some writers address the facts and evidence…others are clearly ideologues and turn the facts or cherry-pick their facts to agree with their ideologies. The ideologues know who they are. The rest of us know who they are because they also denigrate those who disagree with them. I recommend reading past them…they add nothing of value.

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-13520 David B. Benson Tue, 27 May 2008 19:23:28 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-13520 Peter Foley --- Tamino runs an 'Open Thread" over on http://tamino.wordpress.com/ We can take further discussion there and remain 'on topic'. :-) Peter Foley — Tamino runs an ‘Open Thread” over on

http://tamino.wordpress.com/

We can take further discussion there and remain ‘on topic’. :-)

]]> By: Peter Foley http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-13507 Peter Foley Tue, 27 May 2008 14:19:36 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-13507 JR keeps deleting my explanations of the flaw in your 6K CO2 forced increase. JR keeps deleting my explanations of the flaw in your 6K CO2 forced increase.

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-13477 David B. Benson Mon, 26 May 2008 23:02:23 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-13477 Peter Foley --- Possibly a units confusion. With a climate sensistivity of 3 K, 1000 ppm gives about 6 K increase. About 3.6 K is immediate and the rest takes a long, long time to come as the oceans heat up. However, water vapor is a positive feedback. As the air warms, the absolute humidity goes up while the relative humidity stays about constant for obvious reasons. Peter Foley — Possibly a units confusion. With a climate sensistivity of 3 K, 1000 ppm gives about 6 K increase. About 3.6 K is immediate and the rest takes a long, long time to come as the oceans heat up.

However, water vapor is a positive feedback. As the air warms, the absolute humidity goes up while the relative humidity stays about constant for obvious reasons.

]]> By: Peter Foley http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-13426 Peter Foley Mon, 26 May 2008 01:30:42 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-13426 David B. Benson, Hasn't ever happened at 1000ppm CO2 levels, max excursion ~7 degrees Total, last 1.25 million years, we're at + 6 Degrees Celsius now. (We are in a warm interglacial phase) A ice age is much more likely then Joe's pipe dream. If surface temps rose from 15 degrees to 20 average, the vapour pressure increases ~45 percent and the amount by weight air can 'carry" increases almost the same amount---Talk about an actual temperature "forcing" But it is NEGATIVE feedback. More water vapour = more rain, clouds, and increased albedo = lower ground temps Ask a climatologist how even a 5 degree warming in ocean currents that are around zero degrees now would be effected then. if air temps have taken 150 years to increase ~1 degree, how long will it take to heat the oceans at ~15000 times the mass? this neglects the energy sucked up by the melting of the ice required in the fantasy scenario of + 10 degrees climate change in Ninety-two years.(~1 degree C/decade) Even the increase in water surface area will act as a further brake on temp increases. Just the black body radiation increase as temps rise to 298 degrees Kelvin from 288 K are immense. But my heat bill would be halved. David B. Benson, Hasn’t ever happened at 1000ppm CO2 levels, max excursion ~7 degrees Total, last 1.25 million years, we’re at + 6 Degrees Celsius now. (We are in a warm interglacial phase) A ice age is much more likely then Joe’s pipe dream.
If surface temps rose from 15 degrees to 20 average, the vapour pressure increases ~45 percent and the amount by weight air can ‘carry” increases almost the same amount—Talk about an actual temperature
“forcing” But it is NEGATIVE feedback. More water vapour = more rain, clouds, and increased albedo = lower ground temps

Ask a climatologist how even a 5 degree warming in ocean currents that are around zero degrees now would be effected then.
if air temps have taken 150 years to increase ~1 degree, how long will it take to heat the oceans at ~15000 times the mass? this neglects the energy sucked up by the melting of the ice required in the fantasy scenario of + 10 degrees climate change in Ninety-two years.(~1 degree C/decade)
Even the increase in water surface area will act as a further brake on temp increases.
Just the black body radiation increase as temps rise to 298 degrees Kelvin from 288 K are immense.
But my heat bill would be halved.

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-13407 David B. Benson Sun, 25 May 2008 21:30:33 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-13407 Peter Foley wrote "... your 10 to 15 degree jump is impossible." I don't believe you. References? Peter Foley wrote “… your 10 to 15 degree jump is impossible.” I don’t believe you.

References?

]]> By: Peter Foley http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-13377 Peter Foley Sun, 25 May 2008 15:39:41 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/05/23/hot-rocks-are-a-rockin-hot-climate-solution/#comment-13377 Micro-quakes so what, ANY seismic action detectable by unaided humans? Blasting in a mine causes "quakes". Neo- Luddites have no shame. It is likely that the injection of fluids in the fault zone will actually lower the average max energy of the quakes as the liquid 'lubes' the interface. What was the quake history ante Geo-thermal? No damage yet in Basel. The earlier a fault releases the safer/cheaper for all. Unless one has no skin/kids in the future to worry about. Tree-hugger.com, is that an actual non-parody site? half baked repeat of previous post. The town averages 3- 4 earthquakes a year of greater magnitude. I'm sure there are a couple of Proto-Luddites still living in a cave out there, I concede partially- I don't consider a 3.0 tremor as a quake, and I didn't know that geothermal power could be used to reduce the magnitudes of future quakes-- they should charge for the service. Joe. What is the increase in ocean vapor pressure with a one degree at the surface increase? In other words your 10 to 15 degree jump is impossible. Rain forest extending to the continental divide? Is there any Geological records approaching this? I know you have literally bet your career and financial future on a faulty meme. the continuing of a larceny to defraud the public out of public monies could result in a long term incarceration. Micro-quakes so what, ANY seismic action detectable by unaided humans?

Blasting in a mine causes “quakes”. Neo- Luddites have no shame.

It is likely that the injection of fluids in the fault zone will actually lower the average max energy of the quakes as the liquid ‘lubes’ the interface.
What was the quake history ante Geo-thermal? No damage yet in Basel. The earlier a fault releases the safer/cheaper for all. Unless one has no skin/kids in the future to worry about.

Tree-hugger.com, is that an actual non-parody site? half baked repeat of previous post. The town averages 3- 4 earthquakes a year of greater magnitude. I’m sure there are a couple of Proto-Luddites still living in a cave out there,

I concede partially- I don’t consider a 3.0 tremor as a quake, and I didn’t know that geothermal power could be used to reduce the magnitudes of future quakes– they should charge for the service.

Joe. What is the increase in ocean vapor pressure with a one degree at the surface increase? In other words your 10 to 15 degree jump is impossible. Rain forest extending to the continental divide? Is there any Geological records approaching this? I know you have literally bet your career and financial future on a faulty meme. the continuing of a larceny to defraud the public out of public monies could result in a long term incarceration.

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