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	<title>Comments on: Obama:  Climate bill is &#8220;good first step&#8221; but &#8220;not perfect&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: mstr</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-86024</link>
		<dc:creator>mstr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 02:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-86024</guid>
		<description>My concerrn is that we are going to plunge this country into an energy quagmire of epic proportions...because we are so concererned about the cause of global warming we&#039;re willing to give up what is an abundant and cheap resource without really looking into the possibilities of finding ways to cut or eliminate Co2 emmisions from coal, oil, and gas....I&#039;m not against alternative clean energy....but we need to develope ways to fix what we have now, that it would allow a gradual transition to more cleaner more practicle energy resources instead of just dropping what is our life line of dependable and cheap energy resource and try and tred water for options that are not economical and costly....all these domsday forcasters of what is happening to our world climate because of the use of fossil fuels...it&#039;s not the use of fossil fuels but rather the misuse of our natural resourses...the worlds climate is going to change regardless of what we do...the climate has gone from one extreme to another over the years and will continue to do so until civilization ceases to function....I think common sense dictates we make changes to adapt rather than panic and go from one exreme to another....Time will tell I guess....I&#039;m not going to change of the mind of the die hard eviromentalist....they can probably afford the 30 to 40 thousand dollar car...or the 15 to 50 thousand or more for solar, wind or geothermal set up....how about the average person or someone whos barely getting by, they&#039;re going  to have to pay more for the high cost of electricity or fuel....the presidents energy package is not going to make millions of new jobs it&#039;ll probably create hundreds of different jobs and cost the jobs of thousands just for the sake of global warming.....am I willing to pay more for green energy..NO I wouldn&#039;t....but I may have to if those clowns in congress have their way. If your going to cost me my job because of it then you better give me one hell of an incentive $$$$ to go that rout...other wise I&#039;m looking out for #1 and I&#039;ll do whatever it takes to survive....gurantee thousands more will too.........................</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My concerrn is that we are going to plunge this country into an energy quagmire of epic proportions&#8230;because we are so concererned about the cause of global warming we&#8217;re willing to give up what is an abundant and cheap resource without really looking into the possibilities of finding ways to cut or eliminate Co2 emmisions from coal, oil, and gas&#8230;.I&#8217;m not against alternative clean energy&#8230;.but we need to develope ways to fix what we have now, that it would allow a gradual transition to more cleaner more practicle energy resources instead of just dropping what is our life line of dependable and cheap energy resource and try and tred water for options that are not economical and costly&#8230;.all these domsday forcasters of what is happening to our world climate because of the use of fossil fuels&#8230;it&#8217;s not the use of fossil fuels but rather the misuse of our natural resourses&#8230;the worlds climate is going to change regardless of what we do&#8230;the climate has gone from one extreme to another over the years and will continue to do so until civilization ceases to function&#8230;.I think common sense dictates we make changes to adapt rather than panic and go from one exreme to another&#8230;.Time will tell I guess&#8230;.I&#8217;m not going to change of the mind of the die hard eviromentalist&#8230;.they can probably afford the 30 to 40 thousand dollar car&#8230;or the 15 to 50 thousand or more for solar, wind or geothermal set up&#8230;.how about the average person or someone whos barely getting by, they&#8217;re going  to have to pay more for the high cost of electricity or fuel&#8230;.the presidents energy package is not going to make millions of new jobs it&#8217;ll probably create hundreds of different jobs and cost the jobs of thousands just for the sake of global warming&#8230;..am I willing to pay more for green energy..NO I wouldn&#8217;t&#8230;.but I may have to if those clowns in congress have their way. If your going to cost me my job because of it then you better give me one hell of an incentive $$$$ to go that rout&#8230;other wise I&#8217;m looking out for #1 and I&#8217;ll do whatever it takes to survive&#8230;.gurantee thousands more will too&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: msn nickleri</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-26362</link>
		<dc:creator>msn nickleri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-26362</guid>
		<description>Hapa:
i like the “green road tax” name.

Brute:
Good, you pay it.

Hapa:
i think if there’s a domestic airline still functioning this christmas, and i fly to see family,

Brute:
I thought the world had reached it’s “tipping point”? You are going to add to this “global catastrophe” by an action as thoughtless as flying to see your family at Christmas? How selfish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hapa:<br />
i like the “green road tax” name.</p>
<p>Brute:<br />
Good, you pay it.</p>
<p>Hapa:<br />
i think if there’s a domestic airline still functioning this christmas, and i fly to see family,</p>
<p>Brute:<br />
I thought the world had reached it’s “tipping point”? You are going to add to this “global catastrophe” by an action as thoughtless as flying to see your family at Christmas? How selfish.</p>
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		<title>By: hapa</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14376</link>
		<dc:creator>hapa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 04:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14376</guid>
		<description>brute:
i got nothing.

hapa:
i don&#039;t care. either you&#039;ll change your mind about this or you won&#039;t. i think i know where things are headed. you think you know me and &quot;my kind&quot; and that makes me wrong. oil companies ripping you off, you call me names. banks ripping you off, you come at me, blame me for nothing, just for breathing. i don&#039;t care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>brute:<br />
i got nothing.</p>
<p>hapa:<br />
i don&#8217;t care. either you&#8217;ll change your mind about this or you won&#8217;t. i think i know where things are headed. you think you know me and &#8220;my kind&#8221; and that makes me wrong. oil companies ripping you off, you call me names. banks ripping you off, you come at me, blame me for nothing, just for breathing. i don&#8217;t care.</p>
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		<title>By: Brute</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14367</link>
		<dc:creator>Brute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14367</guid>
		<description>Hapa:
i like the “green road tax” name.

Brute:
Good, you pay it.

Hapa:
i think if there’s a domestic airline still functioning this christmas, and i fly to see family,

Brute:
I thought the world had reached it&#039;s &quot;tipping point&quot;? You are going to add to this &quot;global catastrophe&quot; by an action as thoughtless as flying to see your family at Christmas? How selfish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hapa:<br />
i like the “green road tax” name.</p>
<p>Brute:<br />
Good, you pay it.</p>
<p>Hapa:<br />
i think if there’s a domestic airline still functioning this christmas, and i fly to see family,</p>
<p>Brute:<br />
I thought the world had reached it&#8217;s &#8220;tipping point&#8221;? You are going to add to this &#8220;global catastrophe&#8221; by an action as thoughtless as flying to see your family at Christmas? How selfish.</p>
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		<title>By: hapa</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14358</link>
		<dc:creator>hapa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 00:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14358</guid>
		<description>i like the &quot;green road tax&quot; name. it really has better zip than &quot;congestion pricing&quot; or the airline and train industries&#039; antiquated term, &quot;peak fares.&quot;

i think if there&#039;s a domestic airline still functioning this christmas, and i fly to see family, i&#039;ll make a stink at the ticket counter about &quot;green sky taxes&quot; driving up my airfare. hold up the line a little while. that should make &lt;em&gt;everybody&lt;/em&gt; happy.

maybe it&#039;s true new labour hit the skids because they didn&#039;t &quot;and-dividend&quot; enough, i dunno. but i think they weren&#039;t giving people enough service for the trouble in a lot of ways.

course -- it could have been about -- wait, let me think -- didn&#039;t that government get involved in some kind of war?

oh, and i found &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.markfiore.com/lord_petro_0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a documentary about the religion we were talking about&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i like the &#8220;green road tax&#8221; name. it really has better zip than &#8220;congestion pricing&#8221; or the airline and train industries&#8217; antiquated term, &#8220;peak fares.&#8221;</p>
<p>i think if there&#8217;s a domestic airline still functioning this christmas, and i fly to see family, i&#8217;ll make a stink at the ticket counter about &#8220;green sky taxes&#8221; driving up my airfare. hold up the line a little while. that should make <em>everybody</em> happy.</p>
<p>maybe it&#8217;s true new labour hit the skids because they didn&#8217;t &#8220;and-dividend&#8221; enough, i dunno. but i think they weren&#8217;t giving people enough service for the trouble in a lot of ways.</p>
<p>course &#8212; it could have been about &#8212; wait, let me think &#8212; didn&#8217;t that government get involved in some kind of war?</p>
<p>oh, and i found <a href="http://www.markfiore.com/lord_petro_0" rel="nofollow">a documentary about the religion we were talking about</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Brute</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14325</link>
		<dc:creator>Brute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 11:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14325</guid>
		<description>Robin,
Here you go. It doesn’t seem that the rest of the world is ready to be “lead” down this path…………..

Dirty US Media Secret: &#039;Rest of the World&#039; Rebels Against Climate Taxes

By Tom Blumer &#124; June 10, 2008 - 14:20 ET 

The supposedly surprising rejection of the Lieberman-Warner climate bill last week had an element that Old Media in the US hasn&#039;t covered, but is very relevant.
While the press is ever eager to jump on politicians who fly in the face of supposed &quot;world opinion&quot; when it goes against US positions and traditions, it has been virtually silent over how &quot;the rest of the world&quot; has been rejecting the true linchpin of government climate policies: supposedly climate change-related higher taxes and fees. Surely some of the green-leaning Senators who were supposedly on board but voted against cloture were not blind to this.

Consider the following:
• Germany -- &quot;German Car Tax Plan to Be Delayed: Government.&quot; 
• In Canada, a sympathetic columnist cautions the Liberal Party, which seems to think that the road back into power is through green taxes, about &quot;The Suicidal Allure of a Carbon Tax.&quot; 
• Australia -- &quot;The Sun Sets on Rudd’s Climate Change Credibility.&quot; 
• New Zealand -- &quot;Emissions Bill Hanging by Thread&quot; 
Each story is about how a government or party is finding that citizens/voters are not at all keen on reducing their living standards in the name of supposed environmental purity.
The biggest media blackout is over the political situation in Great Britain, where Tony Blair&#039;s successor Gordon Brown hangs by a thread, largely because of his radical environmental initiatives.
Brown continues to push his &quot;Green Road Tax&quot; on &quot;environmentally unfriendly cars.&quot; Poorer Britons stand to be hit hardest, while his environmental minister plays the save-the-planet card:
Owners of the most polluting cars in band M will pay £440 (about $870) in tax. And from April 2010, people buying the most polluting cars would pay a one-off &quot;showroom tax&quot; of up to £950 (about $1,900).
(Environmental Minister Joan) Ruddock added: &quot;What we can&#039;t do is lose sight of the environment agenda because this is everybody&#039;s future, the future of the planet.&quot;
She denied the retrospective aspect of the policy was unfair.
&quot;Over a 10 year period...I think the direction we have been going in has been clear to people at the time,&quot; she said.
In other words, according to Ms. Ruddock, &quot;Your crystal balls should have told you these taxes were coming.&quot;
Two weeks ago, a one-day strike by lorry drivers (truckers) over high fuel prices shut down London&#039;s roads in what was called the &quot;capital&#039;s largest-ever fuel protest.&quot;
If most of all of this is news to you, it&#039;s because the US press is studiously ignoring it. New York Times stories about Brown&#039;s situation on May 14 and May 23 have not a word about the Green Road Tax, even though many Labour MPs have been calling it a &quot;ticking time bomb&quot; for several weeks. Wire-service stories have also been few and far between.

There are three lessons here: 
• The tax plans environmentalists want invariably end up taking their pound of flesh from the people they supposedly care about the most. 
• Once people see through it, they rebel. 
• Politicians interested in self-preservation aren&#039;t about to commit political suicide in the name of greenness. Their best hope is that the news media keep details of the costs away from public view until after legislation passes -- a tough task indeed in the New Media Age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin,<br />
Here you go. It doesn’t seem that the rest of the world is ready to be “lead” down this path…………..</p>
<p>Dirty US Media Secret: &#8216;Rest of the World&#8217; Rebels Against Climate Taxes</p>
<p>By Tom Blumer | June 10, 2008 &#8211; 14:20 ET </p>
<p>The supposedly surprising rejection of the Lieberman-Warner climate bill last week had an element that Old Media in the US hasn&#8217;t covered, but is very relevant.<br />
While the press is ever eager to jump on politicians who fly in the face of supposed &#8220;world opinion&#8221; when it goes against US positions and traditions, it has been virtually silent over how &#8220;the rest of the world&#8221; has been rejecting the true linchpin of government climate policies: supposedly climate change-related higher taxes and fees. Surely some of the green-leaning Senators who were supposedly on board but voted against cloture were not blind to this.</p>
<p>Consider the following:<br />
• Germany &#8212; &#8220;German Car Tax Plan to Be Delayed: Government.&#8221;<br />
• In Canada, a sympathetic columnist cautions the Liberal Party, which seems to think that the road back into power is through green taxes, about &#8220;The Suicidal Allure of a Carbon Tax.&#8221;<br />
• Australia &#8212; &#8220;The Sun Sets on Rudd’s Climate Change Credibility.&#8221;<br />
• New Zealand &#8212; &#8220;Emissions Bill Hanging by Thread&#8221;<br />
Each story is about how a government or party is finding that citizens/voters are not at all keen on reducing their living standards in the name of supposed environmental purity.<br />
The biggest media blackout is over the political situation in Great Britain, where Tony Blair&#8217;s successor Gordon Brown hangs by a thread, largely because of his radical environmental initiatives.<br />
Brown continues to push his &#8220;Green Road Tax&#8221; on &#8220;environmentally unfriendly cars.&#8221; Poorer Britons stand to be hit hardest, while his environmental minister plays the save-the-planet card:<br />
Owners of the most polluting cars in band M will pay £440 (about $870) in tax. And from April 2010, people buying the most polluting cars would pay a one-off &#8220;showroom tax&#8221; of up to £950 (about $1,900).<br />
(Environmental Minister Joan) Ruddock added: &#8220;What we can&#8217;t do is lose sight of the environment agenda because this is everybody&#8217;s future, the future of the planet.&#8221;<br />
She denied the retrospective aspect of the policy was unfair.<br />
&#8220;Over a 10 year period&#8230;I think the direction we have been going in has been clear to people at the time,&#8221; she said.<br />
In other words, according to Ms. Ruddock, &#8220;Your crystal balls should have told you these taxes were coming.&#8221;<br />
Two weeks ago, a one-day strike by lorry drivers (truckers) over high fuel prices shut down London&#8217;s roads in what was called the &#8220;capital&#8217;s largest-ever fuel protest.&#8221;<br />
If most of all of this is news to you, it&#8217;s because the US press is studiously ignoring it. New York Times stories about Brown&#8217;s situation on May 14 and May 23 have not a word about the Green Road Tax, even though many Labour MPs have been calling it a &#8220;ticking time bomb&#8221; for several weeks. Wire-service stories have also been few and far between.</p>
<p>There are three lessons here:<br />
• The tax plans environmentalists want invariably end up taking their pound of flesh from the people they supposedly care about the most.<br />
• Once people see through it, they rebel.<br />
• Politicians interested in self-preservation aren&#8217;t about to commit political suicide in the name of greenness. Their best hope is that the news media keep details of the costs away from public view until after legislation passes &#8212; a tough task indeed in the New Media Age.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Guenier</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14322</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Guenier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 05:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14322</guid>
		<description>Wake up to the real world, hapa - I&#039;m not talking about the bottom billion. The West has a massive obligation to help these people. No, I&#039;m talking about the increasingly powerful economies such as China and India. These are no longer poor countries: their economic development is outstanding. And they&#039;ve got their own &quot;development experts&quot; and have made their own decisions and set their own priorities. Sure, they&#039;re thinking about power and prestige, but they&#039;re also thinking about the alleviation of their peoples&#039; poverty. They don&#039;t need our help - they&#039;re not interested in US (or any Western) &quot;leadership&quot; or &quot;technological assistance&quot; - they&#039;ve come a long way from such patronising neocolonialism. Whether we like it or not, they are emitting vast and increasing amounts of GHG and will continue to do so.

On top of that, there are the oil and gas producing nations, whose power, economic success and ambition depend wholly on that production. They too are not going to change. As I said before, do you seriously imagine President Obama’s &quot;leadership&quot; will persuade Chavez, Ahmadinajad, Putin or King Abdullah otherwise? War perhaps? I don&#039;t think so.

It&#039;s not a question of what you or I may &quot;know&quot; - it&#039;s what&#039;s happening in the real world. Get used to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wake up to the real world, hapa &#8211; I&#8217;m not talking about the bottom billion. The West has a massive obligation to help these people. No, I&#8217;m talking about the increasingly powerful economies such as China and India. These are no longer poor countries: their economic development is outstanding. And they&#8217;ve got their own &#8220;development experts&#8221; and have made their own decisions and set their own priorities. Sure, they&#8217;re thinking about power and prestige, but they&#8217;re also thinking about the alleviation of their peoples&#8217; poverty. They don&#8217;t need our help &#8211; they&#8217;re not interested in US (or any Western) &#8220;leadership&#8221; or &#8220;technological assistance&#8221; &#8211; they&#8217;ve come a long way from such patronising neocolonialism. Whether we like it or not, they are emitting vast and increasing amounts of GHG and will continue to do so.</p>
<p>On top of that, there are the oil and gas producing nations, whose power, economic success and ambition depend wholly on that production. They too are not going to change. As I said before, do you seriously imagine President Obama’s &#8220;leadership&#8221; will persuade Chavez, Ahmadinajad, Putin or King Abdullah otherwise? War perhaps? I don&#8217;t think so.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a question of what you or I may &#8220;know&#8221; &#8211; it&#8217;s what&#8217;s happening in the real world. Get used to it.</p>
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		<title>By: hapa</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14318</link>
		<dc:creator>hapa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 02:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14318</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Pathetic.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

guilty as charged. the rest was therapeutic, i hope?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Pathetic.</p></blockquote>
<p>guilty as charged. the rest was therapeutic, i hope?</p>
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		<title>By: hapa</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14317</link>
		<dc:creator>hapa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 02:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14317</guid>
		<description>and more: everything i&#039;ve ever read has said that technological assistance with mitigation and adaptation &lt;em&gt;would be compatible&lt;/em&gt; with the country&#039;s own development goals. go fly  your &quot;green fascist&quot; flag somewhere somebody isn&#039;t already planning to put a wind turbine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and more: everything i&#8217;ve ever read has said that technological assistance with mitigation and adaptation <em>would be compatible</em> with the country&#8217;s own development goals. go fly  your &#8220;green fascist&#8221; flag somewhere somebody isn&#8217;t already planning to put a wind turbine.</p>
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		<title>By: Brute</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14316</link>
		<dc:creator>Brute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 02:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/07/obama-climate-bill-is-good-first-step-but-not-perfect/#comment-14316</guid>
		<description>Hapa,

Where are you from, the Age of Aquarius? Grow up for crying out loud and stay away from the brown acid.

Have you visited Darfur, Somalia or Haiti to pitch in? Writing a check to ease your conscience won’t suffice…..God I just love you bleeding hearts…….bitch and moan about the plight of the “poor unfortunate souls” as you drive your kids from your suburban homes to soccer practice in your minivans and attend wine and cheese parties with your “enlightened” Liberal pals. 

Pathetic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hapa,</p>
<p>Where are you from, the Age of Aquarius? Grow up for crying out loud and stay away from the brown acid.</p>
<p>Have you visited Darfur, Somalia or Haiti to pitch in? Writing a check to ease your conscience won’t suffice…..God I just love you bleeding hearts…….bitch and moan about the plight of the “poor unfortunate souls” as you drive your kids from your suburban homes to soccer practice in your minivans and attend wine and cheese parties with your “enlightened” Liberal pals. </p>
<p>Pathetic.</p>
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