is warming occuring, sure it did, does and will happen again, same as cooling. thats science..not some trumped up computer model put together by people who can’t predict the temperature or percipitation more than 3 days into the future….

i’m not naive or stupid, but i think people are letting emotions get in the way…go figure with the media we have.

Maybe I didn’t cite it because it’s “preliminary.” He also was cited by ABC saying, “We’re pretty confident this is a record low…” I don’t know, “pretty confident,” “probably,” those sound almost “settled.”

When ABC announced “Arctic’s First Ice-Free Summer Possible Even This Year (woohoo!)” it began with similar rock solid language such as, “The distinct possibility that this summer…” also citing, “Andy Mahoney, a center researcher, has pinpointed this year in particular as having the “greatest chance” of being ice-free.”

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=5265092

Oh well, like Cubs fans, wait’ll next year!

The major feature that presented in their 2008 report (http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/), Figure 4, is the lowest amount of thick multi-year ice since the measurements began in 1979. In the last press release of NSIDC (http://nsidc.org/ news/ press/ 20081002_seaice_pressrelease.html) the NSIDC Research Scientist Walt Meier said: “…preliminary data indicates that 2008 probably represents the lowest volume of Arctic sea ice on record, partly because less multi-year ice is surviving now, and the remaining ice is so thin.”

Mr Tyler, why are you not citing this data?

From the end-Sept NSIDC report: Perhaps the most interesting aspect of the 2008 melt season was the higher-than-average retention of first-year sea ice

Above: But back in the real world the planet keeps warming, and the Arctic is taking the worst of it…

NSIDC Sept: One cause of the high first-year ice survival rate was that this summer was cooler than in 2007.

I’d honestly like to understand what is going on, but who can judge things next to a 21 year treand line for a 4.5 B year old planet? And even though the year to year fluctuations are miniscule data points in all that, when you ignore your own referenced sources and keep harping on the end of the world, who can take you seriously?

The conclusion is that the melting of the sea ice of the northern ocean is advancing very rapidly. When the northern ocean will be free of ice and it’s temperature will rise because of lower albedo, we will reach the threshold point after which the global warming and collapse of the Greenland ice sheets will become more rapid.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

People read the tea leaves in many different ways, but one thing is certain, the ice isn’t melting fast enough to satisfy the catastophists, who will be disappointed when disaster isn’t really imminent.

Climate change GW signals more energy on the Earth and more variability in weather; Many species of can’t adapt as quickly as humans, hence there is a problem (we also like to eat some of them!). My advice: start shipping through the arctic but still expect to use the Panama Canal when you get a cold summer – also make sure the ships are built strongly as they may get pummelled in extra bad storms along the way.

I see you are still keeping the skeptic end up.

UK Sunday Times July 27th 2008, Sky weather man Francis Wilson states, at last the heat is on, shade temperatures hit 28c last three days and global warming should mean hotter summers. ( up to this event we in the UK have had the worst summer for years). He then goes on to say that ofcom ( UK regulator) last week found that that the documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle treated the IPCC unfairly ( bugger) and misrepresented the views of top scientists, He further states that because of this many people think scientists are arguing among themselves. It appears the Swindle certainly opened the minds of many, including myself, I can only thank Durkin for that.

Why do you assume that everyone who disagrees with you is being paid to do so? I don’t get a paycheck from Exxon. I work at a bank that is very active in financing alternative energy and carbon trading. If you accept Al Gore’s predictions regarding the benefits of alternative energy for the US economy, I’d probably make more money if the US ratified Kyoto.

Anyway, the current high price of oil is great for Exxon, but it’s hurting just about every other sector of the economy (especially the banks, which trade almost perfectly inverse to the oil stocks). So unless the “Luddites” you refer to actually do work for Exxon, then I suggest that their interests and Exxon’s interests are almost diametrically opposed.

http://nsidc.org/ data/ seaice_index/ images/ daily_images/ N_timeseries.png

The text cited above has been replaced with this:

Arctic sea ice extent on July 16 [2008] stood at 8.91 million square kilometers (3.44 square miles). While extent was below the 1979 to 2000 average of 9.91 square kilometers (3.83 million square miles), it was 1.05 million square kilometers (0.41 million square miles) above the value for July 16, 2007 (see Figures 1 and 2).

Is the following still relevant?

“No surprise that a recent survey of leading experts with the international Arctic science community found they expect a ‘continuation of the recent trend of sea ice loss’ this summer. ”

We won’t know for a couple more months. But I have $100 riding on a prediction that “recent surveys of leading [climate] scientists” are not worth the websites they are posted to.

One year alone won’t prove anything. But look at the postings above. It sure would have been taken as proof if there were less ice this year instead of a cool million square kilometers more.