Comments on: Wired magazine jumps the shark once too often and is eaten alive (along with Chris Mooney and geo-engineering) http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:48:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1 By: Mike G. http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14892 Mike G. Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:35:25 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14892 thanks for speaking to the nukes part of WIRED's article and for the rebuttal link, i was sorry RealClimate left that out. also: totally awesome graphic! thanks for speaking to the nukes part of WIRED’s article and for the rebuttal link, i was sorry RealClimate left that out. also: totally awesome graphic!

]]> By: beefeater http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14894 beefeater Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:28:10 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14894 Shouldn't Wireds CEO be taken to the World Court and tried for "Crimes Against Humanity" for daring to print articles that you disagree with! The debate is settled, and the deniers need to be brought to justice. Shouldn’t Wireds CEO be taken to the World Court and tried for “Crimes Against Humanity” for daring to print articles that you disagree with! The debate is settled, and the deniers need to be brought to justice.

]]> By: thingsbreak http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14895 thingsbreak Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:44:38 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14895 I noticed Mooney's Intersection post mentioning an article on geo-engineering after I had <a href="http://thingsbreak.wordpress.com/2008/06/23/action-sort-of/" rel="nofollow">just written on right wing anti-regulation AEI floating an op-ed in the LA Times in support of geo-eng</a>. As I commented on the Intersection, surely we can do better than the suggestion being touted by a well-known Exxon front group. Also interesting to see <a href="http://atmoz.org/blog/2008/02/07/a-history-of-the-climate-change-conspiracy-by-naomi-oreskes/" rel="nofollow">the Strategic Defense connection</a> again. I noticed Mooney’s Intersection post mentioning an article on geo-engineering after I had just written on right wing anti-regulation AEI floating an op-ed in the LA Times in support of geo-eng.

As I commented on the Intersection, surely we can do better than the suggestion being touted by a well-known Exxon front group.

Also interesting to see the Strategic Defense connection again.

]]> By: Joe http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14898 Joe Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:42:31 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14898 Beefeater -- Much as the media will get their special place in Hell (and High Water) for their role in climate obfuscation, the moral crimes are really being committed by the professional disinformers and the fossil-fuel funded disinformers. You, Beefeater, will almost certainly live long enough to realize just how wrong you are. If you have children, you can safely live in the knowledge that you helped contribute to making their world a worse place. No, there won't be any trials -- other than the trials and tribulations that the next 50 generations of humanity will be put through. Will that bother the consciences of the professional deniers and their funders? They would have to have consciences in the first place. Mike -- thanks. The Internet has a lot of terrific graphics if one looks hard enough. I will probably be using that one again. Beefeater — Much as the media will get their special place in Hell (and High Water) for their role in climate obfuscation, the moral crimes are really being committed by the professional disinformers and the fossil-fuel funded disinformers.

You, Beefeater, will almost certainly live long enough to realize just how wrong you are. If you have children, you can safely live in the knowledge that you helped contribute to making their world a worse place. No, there won’t be any trials — other than the trials and tribulations that the next 50 generations of humanity will be put through. Will that bother the consciences of the professional deniers and their funders? They would have to have consciences in the first place.

Mike — thanks. The Internet has a lot of terrific graphics if one looks hard enough. I will probably be using that one again.

]]> By: Jay Alt http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14899 Jay Alt Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:04:39 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14899 Here is something I found interesting, from Eli a few months back. Myanna Lahsen's paper examines how weapons physicists, who were losing their nearly exclusive status as policy advisors, were at the core of opposition to earth science work. http://rabett.blogspot.com/2008/03/o.html Here is something I found interesting, from Eli a few months back. Myanna Lahsen’s paper examines how weapons physicists, who were losing their nearly exclusive status as policy advisors, were at the core of opposition to earth science work.

http://rabett.blogspot.com/2008/03/o.html

]]> By: Paul K http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14904 Paul K Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:32:36 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14904 How can you not admit the religious fervor of your anti democratic alarmist rhetoric when you accuse people of moral crimes and condemn them to Hell? Follow me or die, but until then shut up is what you are saying. How can you not admit the religious fervor of your anti democratic alarmist rhetoric when you accuse people of moral crimes and condemn them to Hell? Follow me or die, but until then shut up is what you are saying.

]]> By: Joe http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14905 Joe Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:57:33 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14905 Paul -- The deniers are the ones who are condemning us all to Hell and High Water. [Uhh, note to Paul, mellow out, dude! You apparently missed the point of my apparently not-obvious-enough word choice.] The anti-democratic voices here are the deniers who are paid by the special interest to spread disinformation. They Are committing moral crimes. Frankly, that's the mildest thing I can think of accusing them at this point, since they haven't definitively won yet. Assuming they succeed in blocking action, then they will indeed have blood on their hands. The science is remarkably unequivocal on this point. As for your last sentence, I never said anything of the sort. Please identify where I did. Paul — The deniers are the ones who are condemning us all to Hell and High Water. [Uhh, note to Paul, mellow out, dude! You apparently missed the point of my apparently not-obvious-enough word choice.]

The anti-democratic voices here are the deniers who are paid by the special interest to spread disinformation. They Are committing moral crimes. Frankly, that’s the mildest thing I can think of accusing them at this point, since they haven’t definitively won yet.

Assuming they succeed in blocking action, then they will indeed have blood on their hands. The science is remarkably unequivocal on this point.

As for your last sentence, I never said anything of the sort. Please identify where I did.

]]> By: Paul K http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14906 Paul K Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:15:00 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14906 So like the Inquisition, you condemn the evil forces of differing scientific and policy views. You rail against the dastardly financed denial machine. It spends a pittance compared to what goes into the alarmist political promotion. I'm sure you are familiar with George Sauros, the fabulously wealthy money trader who is spending many millions of dollars to influence American politics. So like the Inquisition, you condemn the evil forces of differing scientific and policy views. You rail against the dastardly financed denial machine. It spends a pittance compared to what goes into the alarmist political promotion. I’m sure you are familiar with George Sauros, the fabulously wealthy money trader who is spending many millions of dollars to influence American politics.

]]> By: Earl Killian http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14910 Earl Killian Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:53:28 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14910 Paul K, why complain only about Soros and not the big-money backers of your political persuasion? Did you complain when Richard Mellon Scaife gave 1 million to the Nixon-Agnew campaign, or when he funded the 1990s coup attempt against Clinton? In 1999 the WaPo put Scaife's political spending at 620 million in 1999 dollars, and that was nine years ago. You know, when Scaife and his ilk were merely talking about the Communist threat, Soros was using his money to fund anti-communist groups in eastern Europe. Were they complaining about his politics then? It was only after the fall of Communism that he turned his attention to the another very worrisome ism: Republicanism. Paul K, why complain only about Soros and not the big-money backers of your political persuasion? Did you complain when Richard Mellon Scaife gave 1 million to the Nixon-Agnew campaign, or when he funded the 1990s coup attempt against Clinton? In 1999 the WaPo put Scaife’s political spending at 620 million in 1999 dollars, and that was nine years ago.

You know, when Scaife and his ilk were merely talking about the Communist threat, Soros was using his money to fund anti-communist groups in eastern Europe. Were they complaining about his politics then? It was only after the fall of Communism that he turned his attention to the another very worrisome ism: Republicanism.

]]> By: hapa http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14911 hapa Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:04:12 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14911 yeah, really. those people screaming STOP THE TRAIN are so much noisier than the innocent dispatcher whose only thought is delivering his cargo to the bottom of the cliff in record time. yeah, really. those people screaming STOP THE TRAIN are so much noisier than the innocent dispatcher whose only thought is delivering his cargo to the bottom of the cliff in record time.

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14912 David B. Benson Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:33:40 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14912 Paul K --- The science is essentially settled. Those who deny that are the modern equivalent of ignorant flat-earthers. Deal with it. Paul K — The science is essentially settled. Those who deny that are the modern equivalent of ignorant flat-earthers.

Deal with it.

]]> By: beefeater http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14914 beefeater Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:54:05 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14914 "The science is essentially settled" Isn't that what the Catholic Church told Galileo. Now it's the Church of the Goracle that needs to stifle decent. “The science is essentially settled”

Isn’t that what the Catholic Church told Galileo. Now it’s the Church of the Goracle that needs to stifle decent.

]]> By: tidal http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14915 tidal Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:14:51 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14915 Now, now. That's just uncalled for. You're not supposed to play the devastating Galileo card until <i>at least</i> 25 comments. Now, now. That’s just uncalled for. You’re not supposed to play the devastating Galileo card until at least 25 comments.

]]> By: John Hollenberg http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14916 John Hollenberg Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:17:31 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14916 Joe, Where are you when we need you??? Joe,

Where are you when we need you???

]]> By: Paul K http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14917 Paul K Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:29:07 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14917 Earl Killian, I strongly opposed Nixon and agree with hardly any of his policies. In '72 I went door to door for McGovern. As I recall the million dollars came from Insurance Magnate W. Clement Stone. Scaife could have given that too. The Nixon scandals gave us public financing of presidential elections. You have previously voiced support for public campaign financing. John McCain has been a champion of campaign finance reform. The principle fund raiser for your candidate's pre-senate political career is on his way to jail. Your candidate is the first presidential candidate to refuse to participate in the system you favor. His assertion that the system is broken is absurd since the only breakage in it is him. I don't have a problem with Mr. Sauros. In politics, money is the same as speech. I mentioned him to show that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The Democrats like to complain about Republican 527's, but Democratic 527's outspend Republicans - so far this year it's 2 to 1. On the very day that Obama said that Republican 527's were one of the reasons he had to turn his back on reform, MoveOn.org launched a $500,000 ad attack. It's almost laughable. Earl Killian,
I strongly opposed Nixon and agree with hardly any of his policies. In ‘72 I went door to door for McGovern. As I recall the million dollars came from Insurance Magnate W. Clement Stone. Scaife could have given that too. The Nixon scandals gave us public financing of presidential elections. You have previously voiced support for public campaign financing. John McCain has been a champion of campaign finance reform. The principle fund raiser for your candidate’s pre-senate political career is on his way to jail. Your candidate is the first presidential candidate to refuse to participate in the system you favor. His assertion that the system is broken is absurd since the only breakage in it is him.

I don’t have a problem with Mr. Sauros. In politics, money is the same as speech. I mentioned him to show that people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. The Democrats like to complain about Republican 527’s, but Democratic 527’s outspend Republicans - so far this year it’s 2 to 1. On the very day that Obama said that Republican 527’s were one of the reasons he had to turn his back on reform, MoveOn.org launched a $500,000 ad attack. It’s almost laughable.

]]> By: Earl Killian http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14918 Earl Killian Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:36:14 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14918 Paul K, I support real public financing of elections. The kind they have in Arizona and Maine. The public financing option at the Federal level is worthless. Paul K, I support real public financing of elections. The kind they have in Arizona and Maine. The public financing option at the Federal level is worthless.

]]> By: Joe http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14919 Joe Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:56:44 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14919 The science isn't settled. We don't know if unrestricted greenhouse gas emissions will prove imaginably catastrophic or unimaginably catastrophic. Seriously, the only thing that is unsettled about the science is the input of how much greenhouse gas emissions humans will emit. We are on track to 1000 ppm. That is unimaginably catastrophic. The science isn’t settled. We don’t know if unrestricted greenhouse gas emissions will prove imaginably catastrophic or unimaginably catastrophic.

Seriously, the only thing that is unsettled about the science is the input of how much greenhouse gas emissions humans will emit. We are on track to 1000 ppm. That is unimaginably catastrophic.

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14922 David B. Benson Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:24:12 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14922 Well, the more we learn about PETM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene-Eocene_Thermal_Maximum the more I can imagine the impending catastrophe. :-( Well, the more we learn about PETM

http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ Paleocene-Eocene_Thermal_Maximum

the more I can imagine the impending catastrophe. :-(

]]> By: Earl Killian http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14923 Earl Killian Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:42:04 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14923 The attempt to compare 17th century church and the 21st century Joe Romm is really quite amusing. Joe is trying to keep the discussion based upon science. This forum is not the place to create science; peer-reviewed journals are the place to do that. This forum exists among other things to report science. Deniers try to take their arguments to non-science forums like this one because they won't fool scientists and so won't get printed in peer-reviewed journals. They hope instead to win in the court of public opinion, which can be swayed by volume. For Joe to try to parry every misinformation post would simply turn this into a contest of how many deniers can gang up to try to take over this blog and prevent him from accomplishing its purpose, which is to communicate news and information about what is happening with climate, science, solutions, politics, humor, etc. The attempt to compare 17th century church and the 21st century Joe Romm is really quite amusing. Joe is trying to keep the discussion based upon science. This forum is not the place to create science; peer-reviewed journals are the place to do that. This forum exists among other things to report science. Deniers try to take their arguments to non-science forums like this one because they won’t fool scientists and so won’t get printed in peer-reviewed journals. They hope instead to win in the court of public opinion, which can be swayed by volume. For Joe to try to parry every misinformation post would simply turn this into a contest of how many deniers can gang up to try to take over this blog and prevent him from accomplishing its purpose, which is to communicate news and information about what is happening with climate, science, solutions, politics, humor, etc.

]]> By: CMann http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14949 CMann Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:20:41 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14949 <em>The Nixon scandals gave us public financing of presidential elections.</em> And look how we've shown our gratitude to that poor man! Paul K just keeps going downhill. The Nixon scandals gave us public financing of presidential elections.
And look how we’ve shown our gratitude to that poor man! Paul K just keeps going downhill.

]]> By: Paul K http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14951 Paul K Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:02:57 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14951 CMann, We owe no gratitude to Nixon. He was the worst president of the 20th century. CMann,
We owe no gratitude to Nixon. He was the worst president of the 20th century.

]]> By: Earl Killian http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14972 Earl Killian Wed, 25 Jun 2008 23:02:51 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/24/wired-magazine-jumps-the-shark-once-too-often-and-is-eaten-alive/#comment-14972 Paul K, the title of worst President, no century qualification required, belongs to George Bush. Paul K, the title of worst President, no century qualification required, belongs to George Bush.

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