Comments on: Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of SUVs http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:25:51 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: llewelly http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15641 llewelly Tue, 08 Jul 2008 19:18:18 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15641 <blockquote> I’m just trying to point out that it can’t really be all about the cost of gas. People in the UK aren’t that well off, yet I don’t see anyone parking up their 4.6 litre Turbo Range Rover in the drive just because petrol is £1.22 a litre (i.e. over $9/gal). </blockquote> Although I agree the rapid change in price is part of the issue, I also suspect work commute and leisure driving distances play a role. The US has several large metro areas, such as LA and Seattle-Tacoma, which have average commute distances upwards of 60 (both ways) miles (~110 km) a day.

I’m just trying to point out that it can’t really be all about the cost of gas. People in the UK aren’t that well off, yet I don’t see anyone parking up their 4.6 litre Turbo Range Rover in the drive just because petrol is £1.22 a litre (i.e. over $9/gal).

Although I agree the rapid change in price is part of the issue, I also suspect work commute and leisure driving distances play a role. The US has several large metro areas, such as LA and Seattle-Tacoma, which have average commute distances upwards of 60 (both ways) miles (~110 km) a day.

]]> By: Julius http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15627 Julius Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:40:17 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15627 Robert, while that is true, I do get the impression that the number of SUVs on the roads here in Devon has decreased over the past few months, and particularly, the number of very small cars (like the Toyota Aygo and similar sized models) has gone up, especially among new cars. As well as the number of Priuses, although they're nowhere near as "fashionable" here as in the US, so far... Robert, while that is true, I do get the impression that the number of SUVs on the roads here in Devon has decreased over the past few months, and particularly, the number of very small cars (like the Toyota Aygo and similar sized models) has gone up, especially among new cars. As well as the number of Priuses, although they’re nowhere near as “fashionable” here as in the US, so far…

]]> By: Robert http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15626 Robert Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:29:43 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15626 Still see a lot of these around our part of the world: http://www.buyacar.co.uk/detailyq10701.jhtml;jsessionid=F9FF279A10C27FC07A39BF2B0CBDF42E I guess if you can afford £67,507 (about $130,000) you're not going to be too worried about the fact that it only does 17.7 mpg. And you'll probably view the 376 g/km CO2 figure as a big plus, judging by the 4x4 owners I meet. Still see a lot of these around our part of the world:

http://www.buyacar.co.uk/ detailyq10701.jhtml;jsessionid=F9FF279A10C27FC07A39BF2B0CBDF42E

I guess if you can afford £67,507 (about $130,000) you’re not going to be too worried about the fact that it only does 17.7 mpg. And you’ll probably view the 376 g/km CO2 figure as a big plus, judging by the 4×4 owners I meet.

]]> By: MikeB http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15613 MikeB Tue, 08 Jul 2008 07:42:16 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15613 Robert - speaking as someone from the poverty stricken island of manland Britain, your right to point out that large 4x4's have been popular in the UK and much of Western Europe, despite much high fuel prices ('We are up high, so we are safe!'). But overall, our historically higher fuel prices, mostly due to tax, have meant that most cars in the UK (and Europe) are still more fuel efficient than US models. I have yet to see a GM Suburban in the UK, and its worth pointing out that European SUV's would possibly be lighter and more efficent if they did not have to qualify as light trucks in the US. The BMW X3 series is the perfect example of this, being just heavy enough to qualify. On the wider point, perhaps the US carmakers should look at what happened to British motorcycle industry. Japanese imports were derided, and Norton, Triumph, BSA and the rest all carried on doing the same thing they had always done. Now there isn't a British motorcycle industry, destroyed by more customer friendly designs from Japan. The big three from Detroit can lobby all they like, but sooner or later, the reality of high oil prices and large costs will destroy them. Adapt or die? They are probably going to die. Must now go to scavenge rags to put on feet instead of shoes, and hope that the UN relief supplies get here soon..... Robert – speaking as someone from the poverty stricken island of manland Britain, your right to point out that large 4×4’s have been popular in the UK and much of Western Europe, despite much high fuel prices (’We are up high, so we are safe!’).

But overall, our historically higher fuel prices, mostly due to tax, have meant that most cars in the UK (and Europe) are still more fuel efficient than US models. I have yet to see a GM Suburban in the UK, and its worth pointing out that European SUV’s would possibly be lighter and more efficent if they did not have to qualify as light trucks in the US. The BMW X3 series is the perfect example of this, being just heavy enough to qualify.

On the wider point, perhaps the US carmakers should look at what happened to British motorcycle industry. Japanese imports were derided, and Norton, Triumph, BSA and the rest all carried on doing the same thing they had always done. Now there isn’t a British motorcycle industry, destroyed by more customer friendly designs from Japan. The big three from Detroit can lobby all they like, but sooner or later, the reality of high oil prices and large costs will destroy them. Adapt or die? They are probably going to die.

Must now go to scavenge rags to put on feet instead of shoes, and hope that the UN relief supplies get here soon…..

]]> By: paulm http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15611 paulm Tue, 08 Jul 2008 06:31:45 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15611 Was that the graph of the Arctic Ice on the verge of collapse 2007? Looks very similar. Maybe theres a link... The writing is on the wall... http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSBNG26150420080707?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=10222 You do realize that we are seeing the collapse of GM - bankruptcy is probable in the next 18mths. Was that the graph of the Arctic Ice on the verge of collapse 2007? Looks very similar. Maybe theres a link…

The writing is on the wall…
http://www.reuters.com/ article/ newsOne/ idUSBNG26150420080707?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=10222

You do realize that we are seeing the collapse of GM – bankruptcy is probable in the next 18mths.

]]> By: Earl Killian http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15603 Earl Killian Tue, 08 Jul 2008 00:44:02 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15603 Robert, I agree with you entirely (and I am glad you reminder Americans of this all the time). Yes, the US is in shock because of gas prices right now (I read a newspaper story today about people moving to shorten their commute!), but if they stay the same for a few years, Americans will get used to them. If however they continue to climb, the shock may last long enough to have an effect. Like Joe, I believe the government is going to have to bring about automotive changes. This will have the quintuple effect of making the air more breathable, reduce global warming, save consumers money, improve the trade deficit, and provide more time for us to deal with peak oil. The opposition to achieving these benefits always amazes me. Robert, I agree with you entirely (and I am glad you reminder Americans of this all the time). Yes, the US is in shock because of gas prices right now (I read a newspaper story today about people moving to shorten their commute!), but if they stay the same for a few years, Americans will get used to them. If however they continue to climb, the shock may last long enough to have an effect.

Like Joe, I believe the government is going to have to bring about automotive changes. This will have the quintuple effect of making the air more breathable, reduce global warming, save consumers money, improve the trade deficit, and provide more time for us to deal with peak oil. The opposition to achieving these benefits always amazes me.

]]> By: Robert http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15601 Robert Mon, 07 Jul 2008 23:13:34 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15601 Earl Killian - I'm just trying to point out that it can't really be all about the cost of gas. People in the UK aren't that well off, yet I don't see anyone parking up their 4.6 litre Turbo Range Rover in the drive just because petrol is £1.22 a litre (i.e. over $9/gal). It must be the rapid change in the price of gas in the US that is upsetting people, rather than the absolute cost, and the reaction is emotional rather than logical. Earl Killian – I’m just trying to point out that it can’t really be all about the cost of gas. People in the UK aren’t that well off, yet I don’t see anyone parking up their 4.6 litre Turbo Range Rover in the drive just because petrol is £1.22 a litre (i.e. over $9/gal). It must be the rapid change in the price of gas in the US that is upsetting people, rather than the absolute cost, and the reaction is emotional rather than logical.

]]> By: llewelly http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15587 llewelly Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:09:42 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15587 <blockquote> Actually, the wind resistance of the upright stance on motorcycles makes their drag co-efficient higher than a slightly larger mini- or micro-car with a windscreen. The Aptera is closer to ideal in terms of its drag co-efficient. The fact that a small engined motorcycle gets about 75 mpg is underwhelming. </blockquote> Agreed. But given that the average American is usually alone on the road in a car built for 4-6 people (Not an Aptera at all), a motorcycle would be a huge improvement.

Actually, the wind resistance of the upright stance on motorcycles makes their drag co-efficient higher than a slightly larger mini- or micro-car with a windscreen. The Aptera is closer to ideal in terms of its drag co-efficient. The fact that a small engined motorcycle gets about 75 mpg is underwhelming.

Agreed. But given that the average American is usually alone on the road in a car built for 4-6 people (Not an Aptera at all), a motorcycle would be a huge improvement.

]]> By: Uosdwis http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15584 Uosdwis Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:47:22 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15584 It's SO funny that the loudest deniers' central argument is that any restrictions imposed on Americans will crimp their lifestyle, particularly moving them towards "clown cars," etc. But the instant gas hit $4, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING ANYWAY!! So, go to hell, Mr. "No SUVs on Mars, yet they have global warming!" Fred Thompson. It’s SO funny that the loudest deniers’ central argument is that any restrictions imposed on Americans will crimp their lifestyle, particularly moving them towards “clown cars,” etc. But the instant gas hit $4, THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING ANYWAY!! So, go to hell, Mr. “No SUVs on Mars, yet they have global warming!” Fred Thompson.

]]> By: Tom G http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15578 Tom G Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:24:51 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/06/let-us-sit-upon-the-ground-and-tell-sad-stories-of-the-death-of-suvs/#comment-15578 Aha! Thanks Greg, now I understand. Better efficiency standards. Aha!
Thanks Greg, now I understand.
Better efficiency standards.

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