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	<title>Comments on: EPA:  &#8220;The administration didn&#8217;t want to show a high-dollar value for reducing carbon.&#8221;  How high?  Only $2 trillion by 2020!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Andy Bauer</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/#comment-15957</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Bauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 04:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/#comment-15957</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s all agree that:

1) Global Depression would be bad, and

2) There&#039;s a whole boatload of things to do that we haven&#039;t even tried yet (see Joe&#039;s piece on Wedges).  And I mean good-ol-college-try tried.

Think of the scene from &#039;Titanic&#039; where there are two rich guys who think it&#039;ll be cool to &#039;go done with the ship&#039;.  Remember their faces when the water is at their ankles?  That would be the look of regret.  As in &#039;I had other options, but I thought doing nothing in a showy sort of way would be neat&#039;.

PS.  BTW - All the &#039;experts&#039; have to be Moms and Dads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s all agree that:</p>
<p>1) Global Depression would be bad, and</p>
<p>2) There&#8217;s a whole boatload of things to do that we haven&#8217;t even tried yet (see Joe&#8217;s piece on Wedges).  And I mean good-ol-college-try tried.</p>
<p>Think of the scene from &#8216;Titanic&#8217; where there are two rich guys who think it&#8217;ll be cool to &#8216;go done with the ship&#8217;.  Remember their faces when the water is at their ankles?  That would be the look of regret.  As in &#8216;I had other options, but I thought doing nothing in a showy sort of way would be neat&#8217;.</p>
<p>PS.  BTW &#8211; All the &#8216;experts&#8217; have to be Moms and Dads.</p>
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		<title>By: modview</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/#comment-15904</link>
		<dc:creator>modview</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 06:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/#comment-15904</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure turning the issue of torture into a joke deserves any applause, if that&#039;s what the Washington Post had intended.  And even if it were some attempt at humor, I&#039;m not sure how it is irony... unless I&#039;m missing something about the definition of irony.  Perhaps you could explain?

Perhaps you meant sarcastic... though I would think using the issue of torture as sarcastic humor is also a bit beneath anyone trying to write serious journalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure turning the issue of torture into a joke deserves any applause, if that&#8217;s what the Washington Post had intended.  And even if it were some attempt at humor, I&#8217;m not sure how it is irony&#8230; unless I&#8217;m missing something about the definition of irony.  Perhaps you could explain?</p>
<p>Perhaps you meant sarcastic&#8230; though I would think using the issue of torture as sarcastic humor is also a bit beneath anyone trying to write serious journalism.</p>
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		<title>By: paulm</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/#comment-15894</link>
		<dc:creator>paulm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 02:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/#comment-15894</guid>
		<description>I know it sounds radical, but there was a depression around the 30&#039;s  and look were we are at now just 70yrs later. If  Climate Change keeps escalating wont that result in a worse, more permanent outcome? From the now desperate calls of our climate and economic experts it sounds like Hell &amp; High water is just a round the bend.

I am not calling for it to happen, I am calling for a debate on it to get some input from experts to see if it is an option. Global warming will be catastrophic -  a depression shouldn&#039;t. We need to look at all the paths forward to survival now I think!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know it sounds radical, but there was a depression around the 30&#8217;s  and look were we are at now just 70yrs later. If  Climate Change keeps escalating wont that result in a worse, more permanent outcome? From the now desperate calls of our climate and economic experts it sounds like Hell &amp; High water is just a round the bend.</p>
<p>I am not calling for it to happen, I am calling for a debate on it to get some input from experts to see if it is an option. Global warming will be catastrophic &#8211;  a depression shouldn&#8217;t. We need to look at all the paths forward to survival now I think!</p>
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		<title>By: John McCormick</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/#comment-15873</link>
		<dc:creator>John McCormick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/#comment-15873</guid>
		<description>paulm, your foolish and dangerous notion:

[that it would be more beneficial for mankind and nature if our economies where to collapse now] 

and your obscene call for ideas to put that into action:  

[How could this be archived?]

are the very charges the strongest denialists use to paint we believers as near-terrorists.

Why do you want to give them proof that we would sacrifice anything to tackle global warming....even welcoming a long-term global economic depression? 

I&#039;ll have to check with my two children to see if they approve of you cancelling their future.

John McCormick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>paulm, your foolish and dangerous notion:</p>
<p>[that it would be more beneficial for mankind and nature if our economies where to collapse now] </p>
<p>and your obscene call for ideas to put that into action:  </p>
<p>[How could this be archived?]</p>
<p>are the very charges the strongest denialists use to paint we believers as near-terrorists.</p>
<p>Why do you want to give them proof that we would sacrifice anything to tackle global warming&#8230;.even welcoming a long-term global economic depression? </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll have to check with my two children to see if they approve of you cancelling their future.</p>
<p>John McCormick</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/#comment-15871</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/#comment-15871</guid>
		<description>&quot;But one is drawn to the perverse genius of the climatic evil-doers in the White House&quot;- so true!  It keeps me up at night.  How can you fight an evil so powerful and incisive while staying clean?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But one is drawn to the perverse genius of the climatic evil-doers in the White House&#8221;- so true!  It keeps me up at night.  How can you fight an evil so powerful and incisive while staying clean?</p>
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		<title>By: paulm</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/#comment-15870</link>
		<dc:creator>paulm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/#comment-15870</guid>
		<description>Can a global economic depression save the world from Climate Change?

This is an debate that we should seriously consider. How bad has Climate Change got...should we voluntarily shutdown our economies to fight Global Warming?

Are we at a point, given the outcome of the G8 meeting, that it would be more beneficial for mankind and nature if our economies where to collapse now, rather than march on causing climatic catastrophe.

I believe that this is a radical alternative measure which should should not be ruled out  in our efforts  to tackle Global Warming.  What do you think?

Part II - How could this be archived?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can a global economic depression save the world from Climate Change?</p>
<p>This is an debate that we should seriously consider. How bad has Climate Change got&#8230;should we voluntarily shutdown our economies to fight Global Warming?</p>
<p>Are we at a point, given the outcome of the G8 meeting, that it would be more beneficial for mankind and nature if our economies where to collapse now, rather than march on causing climatic catastrophe.</p>
<p>I believe that this is a radical alternative measure which should should not be ruled out  in our efforts  to tackle Global Warming.  What do you think?</p>
<p>Part II &#8211; How could this be archived?</p>
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		<title>By: Earl Killian</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/#comment-15862</link>
		<dc:creator>Earl Killian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/11/epa-the-administration-didnt-want-to-show-a-high-dollar-value-for-reducing-carbon-how-high-2-trillion-by-2020/#comment-15862</guid>
		<description>One part of the WaPo story was indicative of what is really going on:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&quot;They argued that this increase in regulation should be on the next president&#039;s record,&quot; not Bush&#039;s, said a participant in the lengthy interagency debate, referring principally to officials in the office of Vice President Cheney, on the White House Council on Environmental Quality, on the National Economic Council and in the Office of Management and Budget (OMB).
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I.e. what the White House fears is that their clients would perceive this as betrayal (hint: the White House does not consider the American people to be their clients).

Then there was this:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Hutto, a former Cato Institute intern and Bush campaign volunteer during the Florida vote recount in 2000, whose grandfather patented at least seven piston inventions for the Ford Motor Company, has &quot;an anti-regulatory philosophy and concern about what regulation means for the American way of life. He would talk, for example, about not wanting greenhouse gas controls to do away with the large American automobile,&quot; said the meeting participant.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
See, large autos are goal worth sacrificing our children to.  Shameful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One part of the WaPo story was indicative of what is really going on:</p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8220;They argued that this increase in regulation should be on the next president&#8217;s record,&#8221; not Bush&#8217;s, said a participant in the lengthy interagency debate, referring principally to officials in the office of Vice President Cheney, on the White House Council on Environmental Quality, on the National Economic Council and in the Office of Management and Budget (OMB).
</p></blockquote>
<p>I.e. what the White House fears is that their clients would perceive this as betrayal (hint: the White House does not consider the American people to be their clients).</p>
<p>Then there was this:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Hutto, a former Cato Institute intern and Bush campaign volunteer during the Florida vote recount in 2000, whose grandfather patented at least seven piston inventions for the Ford Motor Company, has &#8220;an anti-regulatory philosophy and concern about what regulation means for the American way of life. He would talk, for example, about not wanting greenhouse gas controls to do away with the large American automobile,&#8221; said the meeting participant.
</p></blockquote>
<p>See, large autos are goal worth sacrificing our children to.  Shameful.</p>
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