Comments on: Reframing the energy debate, Part 1: Time to stop using the phrase “renewable energy” http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Sun, 08 Nov 2009 08:19:29 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Harry http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-31426 Harry Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:00:16 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-31426 time to stop using the phrase "natural " gas too, we suggest fossil fuel gas... anyone else with ideas/links to this? what pr firm spun the phrase "Natural" gas in the first pace> very interested.... time to stop using the phrase “natural ” gas too, we suggest fossil fuel gas… anyone else with ideas/links to this? what pr firm spun the phrase “Natural” gas in the first pace> very interested….

]]> By: Jay Alt http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16643 Jay Alt Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:21:15 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16643 As Joe points out, the phrase 'baseload solar thermal' has real benefits. It promotes a specific, promising technology and strengthens the idea of reliability. Solar output does vary with cloud cover, but it also tracks well with air conditioning demand. Ideally, the phrase becomes familiar enough that 'baseload' could be tacked onto 2nd generation 'wind power' systems. The ones that will include energy storage. 'Baseload wind power.' Wind and solar complement one another in availability and using the same term would strengthen the image of both. When countering the idea of 'intermittence' and 'unreliability' I like the terms 'periodic' or 'cyclic.' It acknowledges that energy providers will use those patterns to work clean energy systems into the grid. As Joe points out, the phrase ‘baseload solar thermal’ has real benefits. It promotes a specific, promising technology and strengthens the idea of reliability. Solar output does vary with cloud cover, but it also tracks well with air conditioning demand.

Ideally, the phrase becomes familiar enough that ‘baseload’ could be tacked onto 2nd generation ‘wind power’ systems. The ones that will include energy storage. ‘Baseload wind power.’

Wind and solar complement one another in availability and using the same term would strengthen the image of both.

When countering the idea of ‘intermittence’ and ‘unreliability’ I like the terms ‘periodic’ or ‘cyclic.’ It acknowledges that energy providers will use those patterns to work clean energy systems into the grid.

]]> By: Craig http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16611 Craig Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:27:02 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16611 How about 'sustainable energy'. Energy sources that produce C02 are not sustainable over the long run and we should stop using them in a gradual way or else we are going to be forced to stop using them all at once. How about ’sustainable energy’. Energy sources that produce C02 are not sustainable over the long run and we should stop using them in a gradual way or else we are going to be forced to stop using them all at once.

]]> By: Trinifar http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16565 Trinifar Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:15:00 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16565 I like your ideas, Joe, and will offer this one: safe energy. Gives you the opportunity to drive home the point that fossil fuels are not safe -- even if they were plentiful and cheap they can't be used safely. Also goes nicely with "safe climate." I like your ideas, Joe, and will offer this one: safe energy. Gives you the opportunity to drive home the point that fossil fuels are not safe — even if they were plentiful and cheap they can’t be used safely. Also goes nicely with “safe climate.”

]]> By: Emma http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16555 Emma Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:48:14 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16555 I like 'infinite' versus 'depleting'. And I love 'baseload solar thermal' - or even the term 'baseload renewables' to denote all the others apart from wind and solar PV that people never think when they hear the word 'renewable'. I like ‘infinite’ versus ‘depleting’. And I love ‘baseload solar thermal’ – or even the term ‘baseload renewables’ to denote all the others apart from wind and solar PV that people never think when they hear the word ‘renewable’.

]]> By: Brooks B. http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16551 Brooks B. Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:44:26 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16551 Joe: I vote against "unbalanced energy policy". My mind immediately links to "mentally unbalanced" and I think "the enemy" would find a way to jump on that. In general, in my opinion FWIW, I think terms like "baseload solar thermal" are way too "scientific". The scientists are convinced, it's J Q Public we have to reach. When I read the bit on Shale Oil my first thought was "That's insane!" So, thought of: Sane Energy. Again googled and found "Sane Energy Policy" is very popular. Obama made a speech in 2005 with that in title and just organized a forum with same name. Pro Life Energy Pro Earth Energy Save the F** planet energy People get big 6 figures to do this. Let's hire one. They do pay people well into 6 figures to come up with such things. We're talking about saving the planet . Joe:
I vote against “unbalanced energy policy”. My mind immediately links to “mentally unbalanced” and I think “the enemy” would find a way to jump on that. In general, in my opinion FWIW, I think terms like “baseload solar thermal” are way too “scientific”.

The scientists are convinced, it’s J Q Public we have to reach.

When I read the bit on Shale Oil my first thought was “That’s insane!”

So, thought of: Sane Energy.

Again googled and found “Sane Energy Policy” is very popular. Obama made a speech in 2005 with that in title and just organized a forum with same name.

Pro Life Energy
Pro Earth Energy
Save the F** planet energy

People get big 6 figures to do this. Let’s hire one.

They do pay people well into 6 figures to come up with such things. We’re talking about saving the planet .

]]> By: John Hollenberg http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16548 John Hollenberg Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:42:27 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16548 Here is the Peak Coal reference: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2697 Just started reading, looks to be very interesting. Here is the Peak Coal reference:

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2697

Just started reading, looks to be very interesting.

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16542 David B. Benson Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:01:15 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16542 Peter Foley --- You ought to read what David Rutledge has to say about Peak Coal. Maybe as early as 2025 CE. Peter Foley — You ought to read what David Rutledge has to say about Peak Coal. Maybe as early as 2025 CE.

]]> By: Andy P http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16529 Andy P Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:06:34 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16529 Peter Foley: 1. Fossil Oil = Good until the Arctic ice cap vanishes 2. Natural Gas = Good until Florida is underwater 3. Coal Power = Good until we can't breathe outdoors 6. Nuclear Power = Good until a meltdown or fissile material is "misplaced" 7. Various types of synthetic oil/Gas = Good until Canada is tropical 8. Coal, share, or tar sands based oil = Good until human activity on earth ceases Peter Foley:
1. Fossil Oil = Good until the Arctic ice cap vanishes
2. Natural Gas = Good until Florida is underwater
3. Coal Power = Good until we can’t breathe outdoors
6. Nuclear Power = Good until a meltdown or fissile material is “misplaced”
7. Various types of synthetic oil/Gas = Good until Canada is tropical
8. Coal, share, or tar sands based oil = Good until human activity on earth ceases

]]> By: Jason L http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16497 Jason L Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:07:59 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/21/reframing-the-energy-debate-part-1-time-to-stop-using-the-phrase-renewable-energy/#comment-16497 One other semantic that matters: instead of environmentalist, use conservationalist. I come from a farm in central Nebraska and one is a cussword and the other acceptable. One other semantic that matters: instead of environmentalist, use conservationalist. I come from a farm in central Nebraska and one is a cussword and the other acceptable.

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