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	<title>Comments on: Energy efficiency, Part 2:  The limitless resource</title>
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	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: James Newberry</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-27835</link>
		<dc:creator>James Newberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 03:44:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dozens of these types of stories on profitable business energy efficiency improvements used to be published every month in Energy User News back in the 1980&#039;s, when for example, Northeast Utilities had their Energy Action Program.  I agree that the opportunities for constant improvements to facilities as technology and designs improve is vast, and is especially so for new construction. Lets get going. And policy matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dozens of these types of stories on profitable business energy efficiency improvements used to be published every month in Energy User News back in the 1980&#8217;s, when for example, Northeast Utilities had their Energy Action Program.  I agree that the opportunities for constant improvements to facilities as technology and designs improve is vast, and is especially so for new construction. Lets get going. And policy matters.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Walker</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16708</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 16:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16708</guid>
		<description>@Hal Levin -- You make a good point when you talk about diminishing returns.  But I would offer a few thoughts in reply:

1. There is SO much being wasted right now -- in many cases, simply because energy use was seen as so cheap and so consequence-free in earlier decades -- that it&#039;s going to take a LONG time to reach a society-wide point of diminishing returns.  This is especially so since the key industries that will have to enact these efficiency gains (construction, electric utilities, etc.) are constrained by enormous capital costs, slow evolution of infrastructure, and a general cultural resistance to change.

2. Another metaphor that might work in place of the fruit tree is Moore&#039;s Law. Part of the power of Moore&#039;s observation is that it has held and held and held long after the obvious initial improvements to efficiency and miniaturization were made. I have little doubt that in a couple of decades, your energy-neutral house will be much closer to the norm, and that early adopters like yourself will have moved on to arrangements that routinely return energy to the grid, take carbon out of the atmosphere, etc.

3. Related to #2: When Jack Welch instituted the practice at GE of firing the bottom 10% of performers in each department every year, the process was easy for the first couple of years. Consider if you were the line manager of a team of ten:  In Year 1, you get rid of the sorehead who never did much anyway, and everybody&#039;s happy. In Year 2, you get rid of the nice guy who&#039;s just not that good, and while it&#039;s a little painful on a personal level, it&#039;s fairly easy to justify from a performance standpoint. But then in Year 3, you dig in your heels and swear up and down that there&#039;s no more fat to cut. But the underlying principle behind the system is that you *always* dismiss the bottom 10%, and by doing so you constant redefine -- upward -- the overall performance of the team and the organization as a whole.

My summary:  as we get better and better, I predict, we will see more and more that we can be doing.  Yes, there will be diminishing returns at some point -- but we&#039;re so very far from hitting that point that it need not concern us for at least several decades.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Hal Levin &#8212; You make a good point when you talk about diminishing returns.  But I would offer a few thoughts in reply:</p>
<p>1. There is SO much being wasted right now &#8212; in many cases, simply because energy use was seen as so cheap and so consequence-free in earlier decades &#8212; that it&#8217;s going to take a LONG time to reach a society-wide point of diminishing returns.  This is especially so since the key industries that will have to enact these efficiency gains (construction, electric utilities, etc.) are constrained by enormous capital costs, slow evolution of infrastructure, and a general cultural resistance to change.</p>
<p>2. Another metaphor that might work in place of the fruit tree is Moore&#8217;s Law. Part of the power of Moore&#8217;s observation is that it has held and held and held long after the obvious initial improvements to efficiency and miniaturization were made. I have little doubt that in a couple of decades, your energy-neutral house will be much closer to the norm, and that early adopters like yourself will have moved on to arrangements that routinely return energy to the grid, take carbon out of the atmosphere, etc.</p>
<p>3. Related to #2: When Jack Welch instituted the practice at GE of firing the bottom 10% of performers in each department every year, the process was easy for the first couple of years. Consider if you were the line manager of a team of ten:  In Year 1, you get rid of the sorehead who never did much anyway, and everybody&#8217;s happy. In Year 2, you get rid of the nice guy who&#8217;s just not that good, and while it&#8217;s a little painful on a personal level, it&#8217;s fairly easy to justify from a performance standpoint. But then in Year 3, you dig in your heels and swear up and down that there&#8217;s no more fat to cut. But the underlying principle behind the system is that you *always* dismiss the bottom 10%, and by doing so you constant redefine &#8212; upward &#8212; the overall performance of the team and the organization as a whole.</p>
<p>My summary:  as we get better and better, I predict, we will see more and more that we can be doing.  Yes, there will be diminishing returns at some point &#8212; but we&#8217;re so very far from hitting that point that it need not concern us for at least several decades.</p>
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		<title>By: Hal Levin</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16695</link>
		<dc:creator>Hal Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 05:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16695</guid>
		<description>Great story. Thanks Joe. I have no doubt that Dow and others can do that and more. But what made that possible is that they were wasting so much before. We are a nation of energy and resource wasters, both individually and as public and private organizations. The potential for saving is correspondingly large.

Joe, you wrote about the low-hanging fruit of conservation: &quot;In fact, fruit grow back. The efficiency resource never gets exhausted because technology keeps improving and knowledge spreads to more and more people.&quot; 

I take exception to the use of &quot;never&quot; there. There is only so much fruit on a tree, and the new technology can still only be used to harvest some (or perhaps all) of what is still on the tree.

At a manufacturing company, you have to be using [read &quot;wasting&quot;] a lot to save a lot unless you simply stop operating/producing. Surely there is an enormous amount of waste due to inefficiency and a lot more due to foolish use and there are still a lot of low-hanging fruit falling off the trees and piling up and rotting around our ankles, as Amory Lovins wrote just a few years ago [http://www.rmi.org/images/PDFs/Energy/E05-16_EnergyEndUseEff.pdf]. 

But eventually you will be &quot;lean and mean;&quot; if you are really lean and mean and not using much, there may not be much room for improvement. Waste won&#039;t grow back unless you are careless. There is some point of diminishing returns as you asymptotically approach zero total use.

It&#039;s a little like tax deductions. My father taught me that you have to have income to benefit from deductible expenses. You need to use and waste a lot to save a lot. Of course you can simply turn whatever is running off, but then aren&#039;t doing (producing) anything if your business is manufacturing. Supply of materials will still have to be delivered, even if by very efficient rail, and product will have to be exported, again by some means consuming some energy. 

Think about it. Once your house is energy neutral (like mine) due to careful consumption, energy-efficient appliances and equipment, a solar hot water heater (paid for partly with California&#039;s incentives of the late 70s and early 80s), and 2500 watts of PV panels on the roof (1/3 paid for by CA rebates and federal tax breaks), there is not much here that more conservation is going to save. Sure, LEDs and the next generation refrigerator will help. 

Of course America is full of houses with lots of room to save by employing these and similar measures; I would guess that somewhere well beyond 2/3 of current residential building energy consumption could be eliminated rather easily and a similar value for most non-residential buildings. But then it starts to get rough to find ways to save. Especially since buildings are being designed and built assuming that  they will be air conditioned (more than 80% of U.S. homes and a similar or higher fraction of offices and schools) and in so much in places where air-conditioning is considered essential - the desert southwest, the deep south, Florida, etc.

About 20 to 25% of the energy loads in buildings are electric plug-in devices, and most of them could be more efficient, like my present refrigerator which uses half the energy used by the 20-year old one it replaced 7 years ago. That first half was easy. Something like a 5- to 7-year payback. The next quarter is probably on the horizon. But after that, it&#039;s an uphill battle without a quick payback - unless and until the cost of electricity goes out of sight.

Sitting here typing on the only computer I ever use anymore, either at home or on the road, a very small (10.1 inch screen) laptop with extremely low power consumption, I know my old 17&quot; CRT and 19&quot; LCD are simply not plugged in anymore. I don&#039;t miss them at all. But LCD and plasma televisions have been getting bigger and bigger, so there&#039;s at least one new place to save with conservation down the road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great story. Thanks Joe. I have no doubt that Dow and others can do that and more. But what made that possible is that they were wasting so much before. We are a nation of energy and resource wasters, both individually and as public and private organizations. The potential for saving is correspondingly large.</p>
<p>Joe, you wrote about the low-hanging fruit of conservation: &#8220;In fact, fruit grow back. The efficiency resource never gets exhausted because technology keeps improving and knowledge spreads to more and more people.&#8221; </p>
<p>I take exception to the use of &#8220;never&#8221; there. There is only so much fruit on a tree, and the new technology can still only be used to harvest some (or perhaps all) of what is still on the tree.</p>
<p>At a manufacturing company, you have to be using [read "wasting"] a lot to save a lot unless you simply stop operating/producing. Surely there is an enormous amount of waste due to inefficiency and a lot more due to foolish use and there are still a lot of low-hanging fruit falling off the trees and piling up and rotting around our ankles, as Amory Lovins wrote just a few years ago [http://www.rmi.org/images/PDFs/Energy/E05-16_EnergyEndUseEff.pdf]. </p>
<p>But eventually you will be &#8220;lean and mean;&#8221; if you are really lean and mean and not using much, there may not be much room for improvement. Waste won&#8217;t grow back unless you are careless. There is some point of diminishing returns as you asymptotically approach zero total use.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a little like tax deductions. My father taught me that you have to have income to benefit from deductible expenses. You need to use and waste a lot to save a lot. Of course you can simply turn whatever is running off, but then aren&#8217;t doing (producing) anything if your business is manufacturing. Supply of materials will still have to be delivered, even if by very efficient rail, and product will have to be exported, again by some means consuming some energy. </p>
<p>Think about it. Once your house is energy neutral (like mine) due to careful consumption, energy-efficient appliances and equipment, a solar hot water heater (paid for partly with California&#8217;s incentives of the late 70s and early 80s), and 2500 watts of PV panels on the roof (1/3 paid for by CA rebates and federal tax breaks), there is not much here that more conservation is going to save. Sure, LEDs and the next generation refrigerator will help. </p>
<p>Of course America is full of houses with lots of room to save by employing these and similar measures; I would guess that somewhere well beyond 2/3 of current residential building energy consumption could be eliminated rather easily and a similar value for most non-residential buildings. But then it starts to get rough to find ways to save. Especially since buildings are being designed and built assuming that  they will be air conditioned (more than 80% of U.S. homes and a similar or higher fraction of offices and schools) and in so much in places where air-conditioning is considered essential &#8211; the desert southwest, the deep south, Florida, etc.</p>
<p>About 20 to 25% of the energy loads in buildings are electric plug-in devices, and most of them could be more efficient, like my present refrigerator which uses half the energy used by the 20-year old one it replaced 7 years ago. That first half was easy. Something like a 5- to 7-year payback. The next quarter is probably on the horizon. But after that, it&#8217;s an uphill battle without a quick payback &#8211; unless and until the cost of electricity goes out of sight.</p>
<p>Sitting here typing on the only computer I ever use anymore, either at home or on the road, a very small (10.1 inch screen) laptop with extremely low power consumption, I know my old 17&#8243; CRT and 19&#8243; LCD are simply not plugged in anymore. I don&#8217;t miss them at all. But LCD and plasma televisions have been getting bigger and bigger, so there&#8217;s at least one new place to save with conservation down the road.</p>
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		<title>By: R. Shamel</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16693</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Shamel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16693</guid>
		<description>Ken Nelson should give workshops on his methods--or write a book.  (One problem is that companies don&#039;t want their competitiors to know how much money they&#039;re saving with these measures.)  Ken&#039;s methods would also be great to teach in a production course at  the likes of Harvard Business School, Sloan, Tuck, Wharton and etc.  Wow, what a beautiful win-win!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken Nelson should give workshops on his methods&#8211;or write a book.  (One problem is that companies don&#8217;t want their competitiors to know how much money they&#8217;re saving with these measures.)  Ken&#8217;s methods would also be great to teach in a production course at  the likes of Harvard Business School, Sloan, Tuck, Wharton and etc.  Wow, what a beautiful win-win!</p>
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		<title>By: Jonas</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16692</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16692</guid>
		<description>Lol at &quot;solar baseload&quot;. 

The Bellona Foundation sees energy efficiency as the biggest wedge in a scenario that aims to reduce carbon emissions by 85% by 2050. Efficiency can contribute around 25%.

The second biggest wedge is carbon-negative bioenergy, which provides 20%.

The third biggest wench is all other non-biomass renewables combined (solar, wind, CSP, hydro), which provides around 10%.

So, as an individual blogger, Romm is not that far off the mark set out by a professional group of scientists. 

Good job!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lol at &#8220;solar baseload&#8221;. </p>
<p>The Bellona Foundation sees energy efficiency as the biggest wedge in a scenario that aims to reduce carbon emissions by 85% by 2050. Efficiency can contribute around 25%.</p>
<p>The second biggest wedge is carbon-negative bioenergy, which provides 20%.</p>
<p>The third biggest wench is all other non-biomass renewables combined (solar, wind, CSP, hydro), which provides around 10%.</p>
<p>So, as an individual blogger, Romm is not that far off the mark set out by a professional group of scientists. </p>
<p>Good job!</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16687</link>
		<dc:creator>David B. Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16687</guid>
		<description>Not limitless, but there is certainly a lot of room for improvement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not limitless, but there is certainly a lot of room for improvement.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Walker</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16683</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16683</guid>
		<description>Great post, Joe.  The more I think about results like these, the more I believe that energy efficiency might follow a curve something like that of Moore&#039;s Law.  Not saying results will double every 18 months forever . . . but there&#039;s no reason to think that there&#039;s not a LOT of headroom for improvements.

Thing is, cheap-cheap energy, which we had for a century-plus, tended to keep us from thinking / worrying about efficiency.  But once you do start thinking of it -- the sky&#039;s the limit.

At some point, I hope, this will become such conventional, obvious wisdom that non-green business managers will automatically pursue energy efficiency in the same way that they now look for competitive low bids from product vendors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Joe.  The more I think about results like these, the more I believe that energy efficiency might follow a curve something like that of Moore&#8217;s Law.  Not saying results will double every 18 months forever . . . but there&#8217;s no reason to think that there&#8217;s not a LOT of headroom for improvements.</p>
<p>Thing is, cheap-cheap energy, which we had for a century-plus, tended to keep us from thinking / worrying about efficiency.  But once you do start thinking of it &#8212; the sky&#8217;s the limit.</p>
<p>At some point, I hope, this will become such conventional, obvious wisdom that non-green business managers will automatically pursue energy efficiency in the same way that they now look for competitive low bids from product vendors.</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16682</link>
		<dc:creator>David B. Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16682</guid>
		<description>Impressive.  Why don&#039;t more companies do it?

Related, in this quarter&#039;s issue of CalTech&#039;s E &amp; S magazine, there is an article mentioning that an additional $4 per square foot in construction costs for a new CalTech building going up is projected to save $67 per square foot over 20 years.  That&#039;s a decent ROI.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Impressive.  Why don&#8217;t more companies do it?</p>
<p>Related, in this quarter&#8217;s issue of CalTech&#8217;s E &amp; S magazine, there is an article mentioning that an additional $4 per square foot in construction costs for a new CalTech building going up is projected to save $67 per square foot over 20 years.  That&#8217;s a decent ROI.</p>
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		<title>By: bill mckibben</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16674</link>
		<dc:creator>bill mckibben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16674</guid>
		<description>This is such an important point.
It would be cool to have a list of some of the best examples, from Dow and from the DOE, so people could see the kinds of mundane things that yield these big savings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is such an important point.<br />
It would be cool to have a list of some of the best examples, from Dow and from the DOE, so people could see the kinds of mundane things that yield these big savings.</p>
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		<title>By: kenlevenson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16669</link>
		<dc:creator>kenlevenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/25/energy-efficiency-part-2-the-limitless-resource/#comment-16669</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to add that Ken Nelson&#039;s story would make a great New Yorker article.  

Joe, you should pitch it to them - to Elizabeth Kolbert probably....  Loved her article on the conservative farming Danish island going carbon negative:  
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_kolbert</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to add that Ken Nelson&#8217;s story would make a great New Yorker article.  </p>
<p>Joe, you should pitch it to them &#8211; to Elizabeth Kolbert probably&#8230;.  Loved her article on the conservative farming Danish island going carbon negative:<br />
<a href="http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_kolbert" rel="nofollow">http://www.newyorker.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>reporting/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2008/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>07/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>07/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>080707fa_fact_kolbert</a></p>
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