Comments on: Efficiency, Part 3: The only cheap power left http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:18:00 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Sam W. http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-17464 Sam W. Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:43:35 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-17464 Link for the gif doesn't work. [<em>JR: Don't know what this means.</em>] Link for the gif doesn’t work.

[JR: Don't know what this means.]

]]> By: Anonymous http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16748 Anonymous Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:16:25 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16748 The measured costs are only those expenditures by the utilities. Many increased efficiency costs are absorbed by government or the consumer. [<em>JR: Actually, the reverse is true. The economic benefits of a lower electric bill are "absorbed" by the consumer.</em>] The measured costs are only those expenditures by the utilities.

Many increased efficiency costs are absorbed by government or the consumer.

[JR: Actually, the reverse is true. The economic benefits of a lower electric bill are "absorbed" by the consumer.]

]]> By: Joe http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16747 Joe Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:16:10 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16747 Rick: They don't incentivize building the most expensive plants -- they incentivize building any plants rather than efficiency. The utility needs to convince the PUC that whatever plant it is planning to build is the cheapest around. In fact, some PUCs have turned down IGCC because it is more expensive. But IGCC that doesn't have CCS designed into it isn't very useful anyway. Rick:

They don’t incentivize building the most expensive plants — they incentivize building any plants rather than efficiency. The utility needs to convince the PUC that whatever plant it is planning to build is the cheapest around.

In fact, some PUCs have turned down IGCC because it is more expensive. But IGCC that doesn’t have CCS designed into it isn’t very useful anyway.

]]> By: Rick http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16745 Rick Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:58:20 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16745 Joe, it all sounds great but I have this one nagging question. If the utilities pricing policies incentivize building the most expensive plants over efficiency then wouldn't this mean that the utilities would build IGCC plants over the current conventional ones? The IGCC plants are, after all more expensive then the traditional coal powered electrical generating plants. Oh wait, they're more efficient then traditional coal plants but they do cost more in terms of sequestering CO2. So why don't they build them, allowing for the fact that large scale CO2 sequestration hasn't been tried yet? Joe, it all sounds great but I have this one nagging question. If the utilities pricing policies incentivize building the most expensive plants over efficiency then wouldn’t this mean that the utilities would build IGCC plants over the current conventional ones? The IGCC plants are, after all more expensive then the traditional coal powered electrical generating plants. Oh wait, they’re more efficient then traditional coal plants but they do cost more in terms of sequestering CO2. So why don’t they build them, allowing for the fact that large scale CO2 sequestration hasn’t been tried yet?

]]> By: jorleh http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16732 jorleh Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:58:08 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16732 OK, of course, fine etc. Must be done. But better still the potential energy of Greenland and Antarctic ice massees, there is no fossile energy used. And Himalaya, Andes, Rocky Mountains etc, the same. Use them all and we have never more climate catastrophe. OK, of course, fine etc. Must be done. But better still the potential energy of Greenland and Antarctic ice massees, there is no fossile energy used. And Himalaya, Andes, Rocky Mountains etc, the same. Use them all and we have never more climate catastrophe.

]]> By: John Mashey http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16731 John Mashey Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:25:54 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16731 Argh, last one had typo breaking links, sorry. Argh, last one had typo breaking links, sorry.

]]> By: John Mashey http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16730 John Mashey Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:25:13 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16730 Pacific Gas and Electric's CEO <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/18/BUG2BLR5031.DTL" rel="nofollow">Peter Darbee</a> gives strong talks about <a>. I've heard him say it very simply: If the PUC rewards us, not just for generating megawatts, but for efficiency, that's what we do. The CA PUC does. Don't expect utilities in other states until their PUCs do it also. Many people just don't expect <a href="http://www.pge.com/index.html" rel="nofollow">utilities</a> to give away CFLs, send out energy audit teams, show up in force for PHEV events, encourage solar panels, and have their CEOs arguing passionately for efficiency. Joe: is there any summary of the state of the states, not in differences in energy usage, but PUC rules? Pacific Gas and Electric’s CEO Peter Darbee gives strong talks about .

I’ve heard him say it very simply:

If the PUC rewards us, not just for generating megawatts, but for efficiency, that’s what we do. The CA PUC does. Don’t expect utilities in other states until their PUCs do it also.

Many people just don’t expect utilities to give away CFLs, send out energy audit teams, show up in force for PHEV events, encourage solar panels, and have their CEOs arguing passionately for efficiency.

Joe: is there any summary of the state of the states, not in differences in energy usage, but PUC rules?

]]> By: Martin Paul http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16729 Martin Paul Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:12:33 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16729 Professor Ross Garnuat link http://www.garnautreview.org.au/domino/Web_Notes/Garnaut/garnautweb.nsf shaping Australia's future policy on climate change, carbon emissions etc Professor Ross Garnuat link
http://www.garnautreview.org.au/ domino/ Web_Notes/ Garnaut/ garnautweb.nsf
shaping Australia’s future policy on climate change, carbon emissions etc

]]> By: Martin Paul http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16728 Martin Paul Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:05:10 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16728 Joe re Salon article, we in Australia are making some progress, signed Kyota, looking at a carbon emissions trading scheme for the whole economy in 2010, big report released last month by Ross Garnaut. Thanks for your work , will continue reading. Come on US, you have gotta catch up :-) Martin Joe
re Salon article, we in Australia are making some progress, signed Kyota, looking at a carbon emissions trading scheme for the whole economy in 2010, big report released last month by Ross Garnaut. Thanks for your work , will continue reading. Come on US, you have gotta catch up :-)
Martin

]]> By: llewelly http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16724 llewelly Mon, 28 Jul 2008 02:50:28 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/27/energy-efficiency-part-3-the-only-cheap-power-left/#comment-16724 B-But Jimmy Peanut Carter wuz duh worst president ever! B-But Jimmy Peanut Carter wuz duh worst president ever!

]]>