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	<title>Comments on: The Solar Billionaires’ Club</title>
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/05/the-solar-billionaires%e2%80%99-club/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Kirk Sorensen</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/05/the-solar-billionaires%e2%80%99-club/#comment-17264</link>
		<author>Kirk Sorensen</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/05/the-solar-billionaires%e2%80%99-club/#comment-17264</guid>
					<description>The prophecies of the Lovins's have been wrong over, and over, and over again.  No reason to think they're right this time either.

30 years ago, Amory Lovins said no one would ever build centralized power again.  Oops sure was wrong on that one.

[&lt;em&gt;JR:  Incorrect.  He said no one would have to, and that statement is as true as ever.&lt;/em&gt;]

I wonder if these Chinese solar billionaires are associated with the dumping of silicon tetrachloride (SiCl4) that is poisoning Chinese families and their fields.

[&lt;em&gt;You gotta put in links if you're going to make such claims.&lt;/em&gt;]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The prophecies of the Lovins&#8217;s have been wrong over, and over, and over again.  No reason to think they&#8217;re right this time either.</p>
<p>30 years ago, Amory Lovins said no one would ever build centralized power again.  Oops sure was wrong on that one.</p>
<p>[<em>JR:  Incorrect.  He said no one would have to, and that statement is as true as ever.</em>]</p>
<p>I wonder if these Chinese solar billionaires are associated with the dumping of silicon tetrachloride (SiCl4) that is poisoning Chinese families and their fields.</p>
<p>[<em>You gotta put in links if you&#8217;re going to make such claims.</em>]</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk Sorensen</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/05/the-solar-billionaires%e2%80%99-club/#comment-17268</link>
		<author>Kirk Sorensen</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/05/the-solar-billionaires%e2%80%99-club/#comment-17268</guid>
					<description>My pleasure:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/08/AR2008030802595.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My pleasure:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/08/AR2008030802595.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>wp-dyn/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>content/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>article/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2008/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>03/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>08/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>AR2008030802595.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: charlesH</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/05/the-solar-billionaires%e2%80%99-club/#comment-17276</link>
		<author>charlesH</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 04:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/05/the-solar-billionaires%e2%80%99-club/#comment-17276</guid>
					<description>Joe,

[JR: Incorrect. He said no one would have to, and that statement is as true as ever.]

Well of course no one has to.  Never have, never will.  I think he meant no one would want to because it would be cheaper to have your own localized power.  Isn't that what he meant?  Otherwise the projection makes no sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,</p>
<p>[JR: Incorrect. He said no one would have to, and that statement is as true as ever.]</p>
<p>Well of course no one has to.  Never have, never will.  I think he meant no one would want to because it would be cheaper to have your own localized power.  Isn&#8217;t that what he meant?  Otherwise the projection makes no sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam W</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/05/the-solar-billionaires%e2%80%99-club/#comment-17319</link>
		<author>Sam W</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/05/the-solar-billionaires%e2%80%99-club/#comment-17319</guid>
					<description>FYI, Kevin Drum at washington monthly has a powerful critique of Pickens at http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_08/014238.php
Worth reading. The NG part of his plan feeds into other holdings he has, and the wind farm feeds into his plans for water. Check it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI, Kevin Drum at washington monthly has a powerful critique of Pickens at <a href="http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_08/014238.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>archives/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>individual/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2008_08/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>014238.php</a><br />
Worth reading. The NG part of his plan feeds into other holdings he has, and the wind farm feeds into his plans for water. Check it out.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam W</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/05/the-solar-billionaires%e2%80%99-club/#comment-17321</link>
		<author>Sam W</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/05/the-solar-billionaires%e2%80%99-club/#comment-17321</guid>
					<description>Well, I may as well print the Kevin Drum article here, in the unlikely case something happens to the link:

THE PICKENS PLAN....So T. Boone Pickens has an energy plan he wants to sell us. The basic idea is simple: Build a bunch of windmills in Texas to generate electricity, and then use the electricity to power electric cars. Voila! Energy independence!

No, wait. That's not it at all. What Pickens actually wants to do is use the windmills to replace the electricity from existing power plants that run on natural gas. Then we can use the natural gas to run our cars.

Hmmm. That's a bit of a kludge, isn't it? Why do it that way? Is it really easier to build a massive infrastructure for fueling NG cars than it is to build an infrastructure for electric cars? And who's going to force all those gas-fired power plants to shut down anyway?

Well, as near as I can tell, here's the story. Pickens wants to build his electricity transmission facilities on a strip of land 250 feet wide and 250 miles long that starts at his farm in Roberts County, Texas, and terminates in Dallas. Why that particular strip? Because Pickens has been buying up massive water rights from the Ogallala Aquifer and he wants to pipe that water to Dallas at huge profit. Unfortunately, pipeline right-of-way is pretty hard to acquire, so Pickens figured out a way to get some help: he formed a little water district headed by his wife and a friend and then convinced the Texas legislature that water plus wind electricity was a good reason to use its power of eminent domain to hand over the land to him for a song. Wind power wasn't really the motivation for this land snatch, it was just a sweetener for a water deal.

Clever — and typically Texan, no? Still, why not just sell the electricity? Why the natural gas switcheroo? Turns out Pickens has a vested interest there too:

Along with being the country's biggest wind power developer, Pickens owns Clean Energy Fuels Corp., a natural gas fueling station company that is the sole backer of the stealthy Proposition 10 on California's November ballot.

....But a closer read finds a laundry list of cash grabs — from $200 million for a liquefied natural gas terminal to $2.5 billion for rebates of up to $50,000 for each natural gas vehicle. Much of the measure's billions could benefit Pickens' company to the exclusion of almost all other clean-vehicle fuels and technology.

So the windmills are an excuse to condemn land for a water pipeline, and the natural gas piece of the plan benefits Pickens' NG fueling station company. And while natural gas burns cleaner than oil, it's still a fossil fuel that's found mostly in Russia and the Middle East. Increasing our dependence on gas does little in the long term to promote energy independence.

Now, generally speaking, I don't have any problem with people making money from clean energy. That's how we're going to get more of it, after all. But between his water-fueled eminent domain land grab in Texas and his support for a $5 billion bond measure in California, Pickens sure is using a lot of government dough to benefit himself. Something tells me there must be a better way to promote wind power than this.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_08/014238.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I may as well print the Kevin Drum article here, in the unlikely case something happens to the link:</p>
<p>THE PICKENS PLAN&#8230;.So T. Boone Pickens has an energy plan he wants to sell us. The basic idea is simple: Build a bunch of windmills in Texas to generate electricity, and then use the electricity to power electric cars. Voila! Energy independence!</p>
<p>No, wait. That&#8217;s not it at all. What Pickens actually wants to do is use the windmills to replace the electricity from existing power plants that run on natural gas. Then we can use the natural gas to run our cars.</p>
<p>Hmmm. That&#8217;s a bit of a kludge, isn&#8217;t it? Why do it that way? Is it really easier to build a massive infrastructure for fueling NG cars than it is to build an infrastructure for electric cars? And who&#8217;s going to force all those gas-fired power plants to shut down anyway?</p>
<p>Well, as near as I can tell, here&#8217;s the story. Pickens wants to build his electricity transmission facilities on a strip of land 250 feet wide and 250 miles long that starts at his farm in Roberts County, Texas, and terminates in Dallas. Why that particular strip? Because Pickens has been buying up massive water rights from the Ogallala Aquifer and he wants to pipe that water to Dallas at huge profit. Unfortunately, pipeline right-of-way is pretty hard to acquire, so Pickens figured out a way to get some help: he formed a little water district headed by his wife and a friend and then convinced the Texas legislature that water plus wind electricity was a good reason to use its power of eminent domain to hand over the land to him for a song. Wind power wasn&#8217;t really the motivation for this land snatch, it was just a sweetener for a water deal.</p>
<p>Clever — and typically Texan, no? Still, why not just sell the electricity? Why the natural gas switcheroo? Turns out Pickens has a vested interest there too:</p>
<p>Along with being the country&#8217;s biggest wind power developer, Pickens owns Clean Energy Fuels Corp., a natural gas fueling station company that is the sole backer of the stealthy Proposition 10 on California&#8217;s November ballot.</p>
<p>&#8230;.But a closer read finds a laundry list of cash grabs — from $200 million for a liquefied natural gas terminal to $2.5 billion for rebates of up to $50,000 for each natural gas vehicle. Much of the measure&#8217;s billions could benefit Pickens&#8217; company to the exclusion of almost all other clean-vehicle fuels and technology.</p>
<p>So the windmills are an excuse to condemn land for a water pipeline, and the natural gas piece of the plan benefits Pickens&#8217; NG fueling station company. And while natural gas burns cleaner than oil, it&#8217;s still a fossil fuel that&#8217;s found mostly in Russia and the Middle East. Increasing our dependence on gas does little in the long term to promote energy independence.</p>
<p>Now, generally speaking, I don&#8217;t have any problem with people making money from clean energy. That&#8217;s how we&#8217;re going to get more of it, after all. But between his water-fueled eminent domain land grab in Texas and his support for a $5 billion bond measure in California, Pickens sure is using a lot of government dough to benefit himself. Something tells me there must be a better way to promote wind power than this.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_08/014238.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>archives/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>individual/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2008_08/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>014238.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cyril R.</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/05/the-solar-billionaires%e2%80%99-club/#comment-17557</link>
		<author>Cyril R.</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/05/the-solar-billionaires%e2%80%99-club/#comment-17557</guid>
					<description>This water deal argument absolutely makes no sense at all. The water saved by wind power (displacing currently oparting wet cooled thermal plants) is far greater than 

I suspect this is just some pathetic attempt from critics to tear down a very rational plan. If more people were like Pickens, we would have much less energy problems and actually use a whole lot less water too despite that water deal. Think about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This water deal argument absolutely makes no sense at all. The water saved by wind power (displacing currently oparting wet cooled thermal plants) is far greater than </p>
<p>I suspect this is just some pathetic attempt from critics to tear down a very rational plan. If more people were like Pickens, we would have much less energy problems and actually use a whole lot less water too despite that water deal. Think about that.</p>
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		<title>By: Total Solar Energy</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/05/the-solar-billionaires%e2%80%99-club/#comment-19230</link>
		<author>Total Solar Energy</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 10:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/05/the-solar-billionaires%e2%80%99-club/#comment-19230</guid>
					<description>i wish i had some money invested in these companies. there are some companies doing some great research at the moment. It's difficult deciding which one to put your money into though</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i wish i had some money invested in these companies. there are some companies doing some great research at the moment. It&#8217;s difficult deciding which one to put your money into though</p>
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