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	<title>Comments on: Science magazine blows the story of China&#8217;s Environmental Challenges</title>
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: jorleh</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17378</link>
		<author>jorleh</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17378</guid>
					<description>Can´t understand what they think. Science? Where?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can´t understand what they think. Science? Where?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17382</link>
		<author>Robert</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17382</guid>
					<description>Easy solution to the problem of China's emissions. Divide the country into 4, each with a population of 325 million (slightly more than the US's 304 million). 

CO2 emissions of each will be about 1/4 of the US, giving them another 30 years or so to catch up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Easy solution to the problem of China&#8217;s emissions. Divide the country into 4, each with a population of 325 million (slightly more than the US&#8217;s 304 million). </p>
<p>CO2 emissions of each will be about 1/4 of the US, giving them another 30 years or so to catch up.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17395</link>
		<author>Ben</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17395</guid>
					<description>Maybe the U.S.A. should be split into several smaller countries as well.  Then you could still be way behind the Quartered China remnants in terms of population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the U.S.A. should be split into several smaller countries as well.  Then you could still be way behind the Quartered China remnants in terms of population.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17402</link>
		<author>Ronald</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17402</guid>
					<description>Maybe Science had no answer to reducing CO2 release.  There was to be article 5, but it was blank.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe Science had no answer to reducing CO2 release.  There was to be article 5, but it was blank.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17404</link>
		<author>Robert</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17404</guid>
					<description>Then continue the process to its logical conclusion, leaving you with one US citizen (large air-conditioned house, couple of gas guzzlers in the drive) and four Chinese citizens (one-bed apartment, no car). 

The US will still find a way to blame it on the Chinese.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then continue the process to its logical conclusion, leaving you with one US citizen (large air-conditioned house, couple of gas guzzlers in the drive) and four Chinese citizens (one-bed apartment, no car). </p>
<p>The US will still find a way to blame it on the Chinese.</p>
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		<title>By: CapitalClimate</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17427</link>
		<author>CapitalClimate</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17427</guid>
					<description>There is also another article on the effects of dirty air on the Olympic athletes and an editorial, but neither of these seem to mention greenhouse gases, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is also another article on the effects of dirty air on the Olympic athletes and an editorial, but neither of these seem to mention greenhouse gases, either.</p>
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		<title>By: red</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17429</link>
		<author>red</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 00:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17429</guid>
					<description>Robert: "Easy solution to the problem of China’s emissions. Divide the country into 4, each with a population of 325 million (slightly more than the US’s 304 million).

CO2 emissions of each will be about 1/4 of the US, giving them another 30 years or so to catch up."

This assumes that a country's emissions per person is a relevant statistic.  It's not.  Encouraging that is very likely to simply encourage a huge, impoverished population, which is not a virtue.

How about emissions per usable acre?  Emissions per monetary value of goods and services produced, or level of freedom and innovation?  etc ... I'm sure there are more useful measures than the counter-productive emissions per person.

The realities of the military and economic ambitions of China's dictatorship make it difficult to consider taking climate-related steps that actually damage our economy.  If we want to make progress, we need to take steps that are inherently helpful to the economy (perhaps in the long run after an investment phase), or turn the economy-suffocaters into economy-helpers (e.g: tie tough steps that involve higher gas or carbon taxes or stricter regulations to equal or larger tax cuts elsewhere).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert: &#8220;Easy solution to the problem of China’s emissions. Divide the country into 4, each with a population of 325 million (slightly more than the US’s 304 million).</p>
<p>CO2 emissions of each will be about 1/4 of the US, giving them another 30 years or so to catch up.&#8221;</p>
<p>This assumes that a country&#8217;s emissions per person is a relevant statistic.  It&#8217;s not.  Encouraging that is very likely to simply encourage a huge, impoverished population, which is not a virtue.</p>
<p>How about emissions per usable acre?  Emissions per monetary value of goods and services produced, or level of freedom and innovation?  etc &#8230; I&#8217;m sure there are more useful measures than the counter-productive emissions per person.</p>
<p>The realities of the military and economic ambitions of China&#8217;s dictatorship make it difficult to consider taking climate-related steps that actually damage our economy.  If we want to make progress, we need to take steps that are inherently helpful to the economy (perhaps in the long run after an investment phase), or turn the economy-suffocaters into economy-helpers (e.g: tie tough steps that involve higher gas or carbon taxes or stricter regulations to equal or larger tax cuts elsewhere).</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17444</link>
		<author>Robert</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17444</guid>
					<description>Red, There is no natural link between emissions and land area. The land has no ability at all to absorb fossil fuel emissions. Atmospheric CO2 started rising as soon as we started burning coal a couple of hundred years ago.

To stabilise CO2 concentrations we need (at least) to reduce emissions to zero. In practice we may need to do a little more than this to arrest and reverse the trends and positive feedbacks that are already in place. A policy of contraction and convergence (towards zero) is the only policy which can work, however unappealing it may sound. It is also the only policy that would give the US a moral position to demand that the rest of the world joins in - at the moment China has the perfect get-out, conveniently provided by the US, Australia, Canada and most of the developed world.

Your last para is akin to giving up. Chinese and US emissions are rising and set to rise faster under BAU. Without massive political will this process will continue until all fossil fuels are exhausted, irrespective of the effect on climate. We then have the dual problems of no energy AND a chaotic climate. 

I see the undertaking business as a bright star in an otherwise bleak future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Red, There is no natural link between emissions and land area. The land has no ability at all to absorb fossil fuel emissions. Atmospheric CO2 started rising as soon as we started burning coal a couple of hundred years ago.</p>
<p>To stabilise CO2 concentrations we need (at least) to reduce emissions to zero. In practice we may need to do a little more than this to arrest and reverse the trends and positive feedbacks that are already in place. A policy of contraction and convergence (towards zero) is the only policy which can work, however unappealing it may sound. It is also the only policy that would give the US a moral position to demand that the rest of the world joins in - at the moment China has the perfect get-out, conveniently provided by the US, Australia, Canada and most of the developed world.</p>
<p>Your last para is akin to giving up. Chinese and US emissions are rising and set to rise faster under BAU. Without massive political will this process will continue until all fossil fuels are exhausted, irrespective of the effect on climate. We then have the dual problems of no energy AND a chaotic climate. </p>
<p>I see the undertaking business as a bright star in an otherwise bleak future.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17528</link>
		<author>Jon</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/science-mag-blows-the-story-of-chinas-environmental-challenges/#comment-17528</guid>
					<description>Knocking Science seems a bit unfair, as if there weren't hundreds of articles published in the last few years about China's environmental crisis, most of which deal specifically with emissions and coal power. Some of these were in the NYT, others in Foreign Affairs, others in scientific publications (i.e. the research programmes that established China's CO2 trajectory in the first place).

Probably, Science saw the glut, realised that there were other areas maybe under-discussed - in particularly the earnest efforts at the sub-national in China to improve the environment, which include no small amount of grassroots organising and bottom-up political pressure. 

One might have thought, rather, that Climate Progress would appreciate a diversity of information rather than merely a dry re-hash of widely publicized information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Knocking Science seems a bit unfair, as if there weren&#8217;t hundreds of articles published in the last few years about China&#8217;s environmental crisis, most of which deal specifically with emissions and coal power. Some of these were in the NYT, others in Foreign Affairs, others in scientific publications (i.e. the research programmes that established China&#8217;s CO2 trajectory in the first place).</p>
<p>Probably, Science saw the glut, realised that there were other areas maybe under-discussed - in particularly the earnest efforts at the sub-national in China to improve the environment, which include no small amount of grassroots organising and bottom-up political pressure. </p>
<p>One might have thought, rather, that Climate Progress would appreciate a diversity of information rather than merely a dry re-hash of widely publicized information.</p>
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