<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The NY Times&#8217; absurd energy editorial</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:55:19 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17547</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17547</guid>
		<description>Joe,

The Oil Drum has the integrity and analytical depth to point out the absurdities of the Democratic position.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4388#more</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,</p>
<p>The Oil Drum has the integrity and analytical depth to point out the absurdities of the Democratic position.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4388#more" rel="nofollow">http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4388#more</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pierre Gosselin</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17526</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre Gosselin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17526</guid>
		<description>OT, h/t IceCap:
http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2008/08/new-poll-shows-co2-hysteria-fading-in.html

So why isn&#039;t the public getting the message? AGW proponents have thrown just about everything trying to convince the public. WHY is there growing doubt?
Enjoy your vacation Maine.

[&lt;em&gt;JR:  The public is getting the message -- denial works!  Keep up the great, if self-destructive work!&lt;/em&gt;]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OT, h/t IceCap:<br />
<a href="http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2008/08/new-poll-shows-co2-hysteria-fading-in.html" rel="nofollow">http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2008/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>08/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>new-poll-shows-co2-hysteria-fading-in.html</a></p>
<p>So why isn&#8217;t the public getting the message? AGW proponents have thrown just about everything trying to convince the public. WHY is there growing doubt?<br />
Enjoy your vacation Maine.</p>
<p>[<em>JR:  The public is getting the message -- denial works!  Keep up the great, if self-destructive work!</em>]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17524</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17524</guid>
		<description>Platt&#039;s argued recently that the price destruction after the first Gulf War shock was simply the result of anticipated supply disruptions - Iraqi scorched earth missile attacks on Kuwaiti or Saudi export facilities - not actually materialising. 

That this happened on the day after Bush Sr. indicated he would sell from the SPR is coincidental, not causal. Bush&#039;s planners made the decision before the invasion that the SPR would be tapped and followed through with it even though it was not necessary from a supply/price point of view - the price would have collapsed anyway on the back of unmet expectations with or without the SPR release.

Later releases from the SPR have clearly failed to produce any sustained price suppression - when both Clinton and Bush Jr. sold from the SPR, prices rebounded within mere weeks.

If you buy Verlager&#039;s theory about diesel refinement being the driver of world oil prices, then a release from the SPR as suggested by Obama might make sense. Indeed it might make loads of sense to let lighter crude out now when demand is high - but the flipside is that the US could not sustain releases of light crude long enough (until 2012) to get through the hump in refining capacity shortfall. Meanwhile, the increase in distillate demands is a secular trend. So, any SPR release would be the equivalent of running on fumes: good for a few miles (months) but you&#039;re going to hit the wall eventually.

It would also be a stretch to say that the SPR is useless if prices don&#039;t fall upon doing so - the SPR does not exist to smooth price volatility; that is the role of the future&#039;s market, in theory. The SPR exists for two reasons: 1) to provide several weeks worth of import cover in the event of a major supply disruption to the US and 2) to partially meet the US&#039;s IEA commitments. This is why it is a &#039;strategic&#039; reserve and not a simply reserve.

The one thing that might help longer term is switching New England from heating oil to gas, which the US has in abundance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Platt&#8217;s argued recently that the price destruction after the first Gulf War shock was simply the result of anticipated supply disruptions &#8211; Iraqi scorched earth missile attacks on Kuwaiti or Saudi export facilities &#8211; not actually materialising. </p>
<p>That this happened on the day after Bush Sr. indicated he would sell from the SPR is coincidental, not causal. Bush&#8217;s planners made the decision before the invasion that the SPR would be tapped and followed through with it even though it was not necessary from a supply/price point of view &#8211; the price would have collapsed anyway on the back of unmet expectations with or without the SPR release.</p>
<p>Later releases from the SPR have clearly failed to produce any sustained price suppression &#8211; when both Clinton and Bush Jr. sold from the SPR, prices rebounded within mere weeks.</p>
<p>If you buy Verlager&#8217;s theory about diesel refinement being the driver of world oil prices, then a release from the SPR as suggested by Obama might make sense. Indeed it might make loads of sense to let lighter crude out now when demand is high &#8211; but the flipside is that the US could not sustain releases of light crude long enough (until 2012) to get through the hump in refining capacity shortfall. Meanwhile, the increase in distillate demands is a secular trend. So, any SPR release would be the equivalent of running on fumes: good for a few miles (months) but you&#8217;re going to hit the wall eventually.</p>
<p>It would also be a stretch to say that the SPR is useless if prices don&#8217;t fall upon doing so &#8211; the SPR does not exist to smooth price volatility; that is the role of the future&#8217;s market, in theory. The SPR exists for two reasons: 1) to provide several weeks worth of import cover in the event of a major supply disruption to the US and 2) to partially meet the US&#8217;s IEA commitments. This is why it is a &#8217;strategic&#8217; reserve and not a simply reserve.</p>
<p>The one thing that might help longer term is switching New England from heating oil to gas, which the US has in abundance.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ecostew</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17522</link>
		<dc:creator>ecostew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17522</guid>
		<description>The Republican (including McCain&#039;s) drilling strategy is as lame as Bush&#039;s ethanol strategy when it comes to energy security and mitigating AGW - it&#039;s all about winning in the November election. The Republican oil shale strategy is even a worse disaster when it comes to energy security and mitigating AGW. The news media outlets are doing a great disservice by not doing their homework.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Republican (including McCain&#8217;s) drilling strategy is as lame as Bush&#8217;s ethanol strategy when it comes to energy security and mitigating AGW &#8211; it&#8217;s all about winning in the November election. The Republican oil shale strategy is even a worse disaster when it comes to energy security and mitigating AGW. The news media outlets are doing a great disservice by not doing their homework.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: twowheels</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17521</link>
		<dc:creator>twowheels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17521</guid>
		<description>Joe,
There is a well worn and stubborn journalistic shortcut that may be in play here. Some times &quot;news men&quot; profess their goal to be criticized equally by both sides - a self-serving and lazy way to claim integrity. Maybe that made sense in the era of moderate republicans. These days it&#039;s just a formula to promote liars and cheats. But there you go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,<br />
There is a well worn and stubborn journalistic shortcut that may be in play here. Some times &#8220;news men&#8221; profess their goal to be criticized equally by both sides &#8211; a self-serving and lazy way to claim integrity. Maybe that made sense in the era of moderate republicans. These days it&#8217;s just a formula to promote liars and cheats. But there you go.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17519</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 07:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17519</guid>
		<description>I agree with the NYT. They are raising exactly the same objections I was raising about Obama&#039;s plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the NYT. They are raising exactly the same objections I was raising about Obama&#8217;s plan.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: andrew</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17518</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 04:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17518</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve ranted about this before, but while we&#039;re discussing bad press coverage of energy issues; here goes:

The media including most blogs I read, consistently give the oil and gas industry a pass on the environmental damage they do.  They acknowledge past damage, but seem to believe that future damage can be avoided.

This is simply not true.

Usually the news story if interviewing a candidate or an editorial piece will end something like this: &quot;and we believe that domestic oil and gas production should be increased with appropriate environmental safeguards in place.&quot;

As if by magic, asking that &quot;appropriate safeguards&quot; be used will make environmental damage simply not occur.  Well, that&#039;s a load of absolute BS.  Oil and gas development continues to incur significant and permanent damage to fish and wildlife populations and habitats as well as to the agricultural, ranching and forestry industries.

If oil and gas development occurs off of Virginia, how will the product get onshore?  Will they directionally drill a 36&quot; pipeline across the Chesepeake or simply plow it through the seagrass beds and oyster reefs?  Only one way it can pay and that&#039;s to blot out a few hundred more acres of these already endangered and disappearing bay habitats.  Of course there will have to be many lines built.

How many crew boats will ground on coral reefs if they seriously drilled off of Florida&#039;s east coast?  Wells aren&#039;t just drilled next to existing shipping channels.  And how will they get the pipelines across those reefs and grass beds that often stretch for tens of miles?

My experience with this industry comes from Texas, Louisiana and Alaska, and it isn&#039;t good.  They often bully their way through whatever environmental safeguards there are and often no matter how much money could be spent, there is no way to avoid damage.  I still recall the day I saw a backhoe on top of the largest oyster reef in Texas (Galveston Bay&#039;s Todd&#039;s Dump) hacking away a path for a pipeline.  No permit, but what the hell all was forgiven.  That single oyster reef produced one-third of Texas&#039; oysters or about 10% of the U.S. Atlantic total.

Not many folks have noticed, but citizens and elected officials in New Mexico, Colorado and Wyoming have a lot of not nice things to say about the booming gas industry in their states.

How about a little honesty: &quot;and we should increase local production even though it means irreversible damage to large swaths of our country.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve ranted about this before, but while we&#8217;re discussing bad press coverage of energy issues; here goes:</p>
<p>The media including most blogs I read, consistently give the oil and gas industry a pass on the environmental damage they do.  They acknowledge past damage, but seem to believe that future damage can be avoided.</p>
<p>This is simply not true.</p>
<p>Usually the news story if interviewing a candidate or an editorial piece will end something like this: &#8220;and we believe that domestic oil and gas production should be increased with appropriate environmental safeguards in place.&#8221;</p>
<p>As if by magic, asking that &#8220;appropriate safeguards&#8221; be used will make environmental damage simply not occur.  Well, that&#8217;s a load of absolute BS.  Oil and gas development continues to incur significant and permanent damage to fish and wildlife populations and habitats as well as to the agricultural, ranching and forestry industries.</p>
<p>If oil and gas development occurs off of Virginia, how will the product get onshore?  Will they directionally drill a 36&#8243; pipeline across the Chesepeake or simply plow it through the seagrass beds and oyster reefs?  Only one way it can pay and that&#8217;s to blot out a few hundred more acres of these already endangered and disappearing bay habitats.  Of course there will have to be many lines built.</p>
<p>How many crew boats will ground on coral reefs if they seriously drilled off of Florida&#8217;s east coast?  Wells aren&#8217;t just drilled next to existing shipping channels.  And how will they get the pipelines across those reefs and grass beds that often stretch for tens of miles?</p>
<p>My experience with this industry comes from Texas, Louisiana and Alaska, and it isn&#8217;t good.  They often bully their way through whatever environmental safeguards there are and often no matter how much money could be spent, there is no way to avoid damage.  I still recall the day I saw a backhoe on top of the largest oyster reef in Texas (Galveston Bay&#8217;s Todd&#8217;s Dump) hacking away a path for a pipeline.  No permit, but what the hell all was forgiven.  That single oyster reef produced one-third of Texas&#8217; oysters or about 10% of the U.S. Atlantic total.</p>
<p>Not many folks have noticed, but citizens and elected officials in New Mexico, Colorado and Wyoming have a lot of not nice things to say about the booming gas industry in their states.</p>
<p>How about a little honesty: &#8220;and we should increase local production even though it means irreversible damage to large swaths of our country.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ronald</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17516</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 00:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17516</guid>
		<description>That opinion piece is bad.   I think that they mostly just want to make controversy to sell papers than to actually make sense.

this one by Thomas Friedman is way better.   About how Denmark doesn&#039;t import any middle east oil and 50 percent are on bicycles.   And it works.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/opinion/10friedman1.html?em

1.6 percent unemployment?   Denmark?  Huh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That opinion piece is bad.   I think that they mostly just want to make controversy to sell papers than to actually make sense.</p>
<p>this one by Thomas Friedman is way better.   About how Denmark doesn&#8217;t import any middle east oil and 50 percent are on bicycles.   And it works.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/opinion/10friedman1.html?em" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2008/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>08/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>10/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>opinion/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>10friedman1.html?em</a></p>
<p>1.6 percent unemployment?   Denmark?  Huh?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rpauli</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17515</link>
		<dc:creator>rpauli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 22:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17515</guid>
		<description>The Carbon energy industries are pouring on the propaganda with this election.   An easy observation would be to track fossil fuel industry advertising buys in the NYTimes from now through the election.  It is surely considerable.

Meanwhile the Online campaign also expands 

http://www.willyoujoinus.com/energy-issues/
http://www.willyoujoinus.com/media-gallery/advertising/print.aspx
And has some &#039;kumbayah&quot; touchy feelly video ads

Has some slick game simulations
http://www.willyoujoinus.com/energyville/

They now seem to embrace alternative energy sources.
The campaign seems to be sending the message of &quot;we are your friends, we can do this together&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Carbon energy industries are pouring on the propaganda with this election.   An easy observation would be to track fossil fuel industry advertising buys in the NYTimes from now through the election.  It is surely considerable.</p>
<p>Meanwhile the Online campaign also expands </p>
<p><a href="http://www.willyoujoinus.com/energy-issues/" rel="nofollow">http://www.willyoujoinus.com/energy-issues/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.willyoujoinus.com/media-gallery/advertising/print.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.willyoujoinus.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>media-gallery/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>advertising/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>print.aspx</a><br />
And has some &#8216;kumbayah&#8221; touchy feelly video ads</p>
<p>Has some slick game simulations<br />
<a href="http://www.willyoujoinus.com/energyville/" rel="nofollow">http://www.willyoujoinus.com/energyville/</a></p>
<p>They now seem to embrace alternative energy sources.<br />
The campaign seems to be sending the message of &#8220;we are your friends, we can do this together&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17514</link>
		<dc:creator>David B. Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 22:36:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/10/the-ny-times-absurd-energy-editorial/#comment-17514</guid>
		<description>Er, locally the price of gasoline is now down 3.5% from its high.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Er, locally the price of gasoline is now down 3.5% from its high.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
