Comments on: 7 in 10 Americans reducing carbon footprint http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Fri, 09 Jan 2009 06:43:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1 By: Carolyn McMaster http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-17965 Carolyn McMaster Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:09:49 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-17965 Ken, I agree with your perspective on these results--and, like you, it's especially heartening that there seems to broad support for U.S. policy action. Somewhat less heartening is that we can't rely solely on environmental motivations for getting folks to do the right thing--with oil and gas prices up, more folks want drilling where we shouldn't, convinced by McCain et al. that it will bring prices down. As you say, we've got to appeal to pocketbooks as well as the greater good. I'd further argue that a "do the right thing" message should never be the only one. See my post from last week on it at http://www.thinkshiftcom.com/blog/2008/08/13/poll-highlights-contradictions-in-global-warming-attitudes/. Keep up the good work. Ken,
I agree with your perspective on these results–and, like you, it’s especially heartening that there seems to broad support for U.S. policy action.

Somewhat less heartening is that we can’t rely solely on environmental motivations for getting folks to do the right thing–with oil and gas prices up, more folks want drilling where we shouldn’t, convinced by McCain et al. that it will bring prices down. As you say, we’ve got to appeal to pocketbooks as well as the greater good. I’d further argue that a “do the right thing” message should never be the only one. See my post from last week on it at http://www.thinkshiftcom.com/ blog/ 2008/ 08/ 13/ poll-highlights-contradictions-in-global-warming-attitudes/ .

Keep up the good work.

]]> By: gaiasdaughter http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-17968 gaiasdaughter Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:37:58 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-17968 Ken, the problem with the question 'do you trust scientists' statements regarding climate' is that it doesn't specify which scientists. I trust Hansen, the IPCC, the National Academies of Science, and the AAS, to name a few. I don't trust Fred Singer, Dr. William Gray, or The Oregon Petition. At least I know the difference. Others out there read conflicting viewpoints in their local papers and don't know who to trust. No wonder the numbers are ridiculous. As for the threat question, I'm 58. Is it global warming going to be a threat in my lifetime? I really don't know. (I probably won't make it to 2050; you'll have to carry on without me). Overall, do I think the numbers are encouraging. We may have hope yet. Ken, the problem with the question ‘do you trust scientists’ statements regarding climate’ is that it doesn’t specify which scientists. I trust Hansen, the IPCC, the National Academies of Science, and the AAS, to name a few. I don’t trust Fred Singer, Dr. William Gray, or The Oregon Petition. At least I know the difference. Others out there read conflicting viewpoints in their local papers and don’t know who to trust. No wonder the numbers are ridiculous.

As for the threat question, I’m 58. Is it global warming going to be a threat in my lifetime? I really don’t know. (I probably won’t make it to 2050; you’ll have to carry on without me). Overall, do I think the numbers are encouraging. We may have hope yet.

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-17972 David B. Benson Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:01:04 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-17972 gaiasdaughter ---- The ongoing distruction of marine life may well be a threat in your lifetime. Ocean acidification due to too much CO2 is part of it. gaiasdaughter —- The ongoing distruction of marine life may well be a threat in your lifetime. Ocean acidification due to too much CO2 is part of it.

]]> By: red http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-17994 red Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:56:31 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-17994 "59% - support Cap/Trade 74% - support Cap/Trade when told similar approach succeeded against acid rain" I wonder how many would support Cap/Trade if it was implemented not as essentially a tax that harms the economy and energy consumers' pocketbooks (are those 59%/74% even aware that ultimately the consumer will need to pay - as well as those working class energy company employees?), but as a trade (that old bargaining chip again)? For example, would they go for it if it was done in conjunction with a comparably-sized reduction in payroll or income taxes? I suspect (having this kind of outlook myself) that there are a lot of people who are not against reducing pollution per se, but that are against having economic burdens placed on themselves and the people they care about, and/or are against increasing the centralized and easily corrupted power of the Federal government (for example, by giving it more money to spend). “59% - support Cap/Trade
74% - support Cap/Trade when told similar approach succeeded against acid rain”

I wonder how many would support Cap/Trade if it was implemented not as essentially a tax that harms the economy and energy consumers’ pocketbooks (are those 59%/74% even aware that ultimately the consumer will need to pay - as well as those working class energy company employees?), but as a trade (that old bargaining chip again)? For example, would they go for it if it was done in conjunction with a comparably-sized reduction in payroll or income taxes?

I suspect (having this kind of outlook myself) that there are a lot of people who are not against reducing pollution per se, but that are against having economic burdens placed on themselves and the people they care about, and/or are against increasing the centralized and easily corrupted power of the Federal government (for example, by giving it more money to spend).

]]> By: kenlevenson http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-18012 kenlevenson Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:11:25 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-18012 gaiasdaughter, Like 2100, 2050 is probably a mistaken yardstick - just too far out. We should probably be talking about 2030 or so. And while the outlier world of collapse by 2030 that James Lovelock predicts - hopefully - an extreme that's not possible, it's my sense that this beast is moving much faster than anyone wants to consider or imagine. I think 20 years from now - while having much worse to get and go - will be for all practical purposes unimaginably bad. gaiasdaughter,

Like 2100, 2050 is probably a mistaken yardstick - just too far out. We should probably be talking about 2030 or so. And while the outlier world of collapse by 2030 that James Lovelock predicts - hopefully - an extreme that’s not possible, it’s my sense that this beast is moving much faster than anyone wants to consider or imagine. I think 20 years from now - while having much worse to get and go - will be for all practical purposes unimaginably bad.

]]> By: kenlevenson http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-18013 kenlevenson Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:15:09 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-18013 red, The cost of not acting is exponentially greater than that of acting. And to hit this point home - so that we might actually act rationally - we need a media willing to report what we face forcefully and bluntly. red,

The cost of not acting is exponentially greater than that of acting.
And to hit this point home - so that we might actually act rationally - we need a media willing to report what we face forcefully and bluntly.

]]> By: gaiasdaughter http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-18015 gaiasdaughter Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:59:37 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-18015 I was being a bit flip in my question. Half my house was taken by hurricane Ivan in 2004 and further damaged by Katrina in 2005. Did global warming cause those hurricanes? Highly unlikely. Did global warming contribute to their overall strength? Probably. So we are already being threatened by global warming. My real question, and Ken, I think you answered it, is this: if we continue with business-as-usual, how long before climate destabilization makes business-as-usual difficult, if not impossible? My crystal ball tends to fog over when I ask it that question. I was being a bit flip in my question. Half my house was taken by hurricane Ivan in 2004 and further damaged by Katrina in 2005. Did global warming cause those hurricanes? Highly unlikely. Did global warming contribute to their overall strength? Probably. So we are already being threatened by global warming. My real question, and Ken, I think you answered it, is this: if we continue with business-as-usual, how long before climate destabilization makes business-as-usual difficult, if not impossible? My crystal ball tends to fog over when I ask it that question.

]]> By: kenlevenson http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-18022 kenlevenson Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:50:27 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/7-in-10-americans-reducing-carbon-footprint/#comment-18022 gaiasdaughter, sorry to hear about your house. i actually think society will start to mobilize in just a few years....as it becomes clear that some countries in South Asia, South America and Africa are being fundamentally affected in ways that put them on a path to destabilization and collapse. While failing nation states may be far away geographically, the repercussions will be global. And that's just the start. This realization is coming into focus now...see http://www.gorkhapatra.org.np/detail.php?article_id=5607&cat_id=8 excerpt: "Global climate change according to data published by ICIMOD is causing a rapid melt down of snow and glaciers in the Himalayan region and the water from the Himalayan river systems flows into water basins with a total population of almost 1.3 billion." or my post about the Andes: http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/30/a-vicious-cycle/ I give it 2 or 3 years before folks really start freaking out about what's coming... IF Obama is elected and the science funding is ramped up, and IF Obama implements an appropriate public education program. gaiasdaughter,
sorry to hear about your house. i actually think society will start to mobilize in just a few years….as it becomes clear that some countries in South Asia, South America and Africa are being fundamentally affected in ways that put them on a path to destabilization and collapse. While failing nation states may be far away geographically, the repercussions will be global. And that’s just the start. This realization is coming into focus now…see http://www.gorkhapatra.org.np/ detail.php?article_id=5607&cat_id=8
excerpt:
“Global climate change according to data published by ICIMOD is causing a rapid melt down of snow and glaciers in the Himalayan region and the water from the Himalayan river systems flows into water basins with a total population of almost 1.3 billion.”

or my post about the Andes: http://climateprogress.org/2008/04/30/a-vicious-cycle/

I give it 2 or 3 years before folks really start freaking out about what’s coming… IF Obama is elected and the science funding is ramped up, and IF Obama implements an appropriate public education program.

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