Comments on: A new Olympic record for retraction of a denier talking point http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Fri, 09 Jan 2009 07:21:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1 By: beefeater http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17967 beefeater Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:35:12 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17967 How about these "deniers"? Did they keep this find quite for five years to spare your feelings? Alpine melt reveals ancient life http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7580294.stm I expect to see a full debunking of this, Joe. [<em>JR: Debunk? You and I obviously read different pieces: <blockquote>For Martin Grosjean, the leather items found on the Schnidejoch, dated at over 5,000 years old, are proof, if any more were needed, that the Earth is now warming up. "The leather is the jewel among the finds," he says. "If leather is exposed to the weather, to sun, wind and rain, it disintegrates almost immediately. Tool reconstruction (University of Berne) "The fact that we still find these 5,000-year-old pieces of leather tells us they were protected by the ice all this time, and that the glaciers have never been smaller than in the year 2003 and the years following."</blockquote> <em>Makes sense to me.</em>] How about these “deniers”?
Did they keep this find quite for five years to spare your feelings?

Alpine melt reveals ancient life

http://news.bbc.co.uk/ 2/ hi/ science/ nature/ 7580294.stm

I expect to see a full debunking of this, Joe.

[JR: Debunk? You and I obviously read different pieces:

For Martin Grosjean, the leather items found on the Schnidejoch, dated at over 5,000 years old, are proof, if any more were needed, that the Earth is now warming up.
“The leather is the jewel among the finds,” he says. “If leather is exposed to the weather, to sun, wind and rain, it disintegrates almost immediately.
Tool reconstruction (University of Berne)
“The fact that we still find these 5,000-year-old pieces of leather tells us they were protected by the ice all this time, and that the glaciers have never been smaller than in the year 2003 and the years following.”

Makes sense to me.]

]]> By: paulm http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17970 paulm Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:52:26 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17970 <i>..But again, what’s important isn’t from all year by year fluctuations,....</i> However, there are <b>Tipping Points</b>, and 2007/08 is probably one of them! Here's and interesting article. Note the confusing reporting with reference to 1990. This is a big problem - scientist still keep confusing the issue. At top of Greenland, new worrisome cracks in ice, AP http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5haFo02rnjDwdXudd0xvERQuTcziAD92MUI001 ..But again, what’s important isn’t from all year by year fluctuations,….

However, there are Tipping Points, and 2007/08 is probably one of them!

Here’s and interesting article. Note the confusing reporting with reference to 1990. This is a big problem - scientist still keep confusing the issue.

At top of Greenland, new worrisome cracks in ice, AP
http://ap.google.com/ article/ ALeqM5haFo02rnjDwdXudd0xvERQuTcziAD92MUI001

]]> By: Brian D http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17971 Brian D Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:59:43 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17971 Is it just me, or is an unreported "just kidding!" becoming the inactivist meme-du-jour? Not long ago, Jennifer Morohasy posted <a href="http://www.jennifermarohasy.com/blog/archives/003331.html" rel="nofollow">this epic failure</a> at thermodynamics by Alan Siddons. It was later followed by Gordon Robertson <a href="http://www.jennifermarohasy.com/blog/archives/003337.html" rel="nofollow">failing introductory geophysics</a>. When the idiocy of these claims was (repeatedly, and more slowly) explained to her, Morohasy's response was "<a href="http://www.jennifermarohasy.com/blog/archives/003338.html" rel="nofollow">Socratic irony</a>" -- a sophisticated, but spineless, way of saying "just kidding!" (especially since she didn't alter either entry with any caveat afterwards.) I should note that the post following Siddons' was Morohasy reiterating Goddard, who has now retracted. Now taking bets that she ignores this change of mind altogether. Is it just me, or is an unreported “just kidding!” becoming the inactivist meme-du-jour?

Not long ago, Jennifer Morohasy posted this epic failure at thermodynamics by Alan Siddons. It was later followed by Gordon Robertson failing introductory geophysics. When the idiocy of these claims was (repeatedly, and more slowly) explained to her, Morohasy’s response was “Socratic irony” — a sophisticated, but spineless, way of saying “just kidding!” (especially since she didn’t alter either entry with any caveat afterwards.)

I should note that the post following Siddons’ was Morohasy reiterating Goddard, who has now retracted. Now taking bets that she ignores this change of mind altogether.

]]> By: beefeater http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17975 beefeater Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:14:24 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17975 [JR: Debunk? You and I obviously read different pieces]: Of course it makes sense, man made global warming is a myth, whatever is happening today has happened before. And only those who stand to profit from the doom and gloom of perpetuating that myth are the "deniers" Change is what climate does, always has always will. [<em>JR: Someday you will understand why the climate changed in the past and why what we are doing now is a forcing the climate to change much faster than it ever has before. But that would require reading the scientific literature, so I suspect we'll just have to wait until the climate is ruined. Do let your kids know you were one of those cheering on humanity's self-destruction.</em>] [JR: Debunk? You and I obviously read different pieces]:

Of course it makes sense, man made global warming is a myth, whatever is happening today has happened before. And only those who stand to profit from the doom and gloom of perpetuating that myth are the “deniers”

Change is what climate does, always has always will.

[JR: Someday you will understand why the climate changed in the past and why what we are doing now is a forcing the climate to change much faster than it ever has before. But that would require reading the scientific literature, so I suspect we’ll just have to wait until the climate is ruined. Do let your kids know you were one of those cheering on humanity’s self-destruction.]

]]> By: John Hollenberg http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17977 John Hollenberg Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:33:44 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17977 > man made global warming is a myth For a contrary (and scientific) opinion see: http://www.ipcc.ch/ > man made global warming is a myth

For a contrary (and scientific) opinion see:

http://www.ipcc.ch/

]]> By: Jay Alt http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17978 Jay Alt Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:35:33 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17978 Brian D writes: <i>Is it just me, or is an unreported “just kidding!” becoming the inactivist meme-du-jour?</i> False claims that are debunked are often remembered as true - http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/07/the-difficulty-of-debunking-a-myth/ http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/why-debunking-myths-can-backfire.html Brian D writes:
Is it just me, or is an unreported “just kidding!” becoming the inactivist meme-du-jour?

False claims that are debunked are often remembered as true -

http://climateprogress.org/ 2008/ 08/ 07/ the-difficulty-of-debunking-a-myth/

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ 2007/ 10/ why-debunking-myths-can-backfire.html

]]> By: Dano http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17979 Dano Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:20:28 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17979 Guys, guys guys. Take away the long-ago debunked and recycled denialist arguments, and what will they have? Nothing! Give them a break! Best, D Guys, guys guys. Take away the long-ago debunked and recycled denialist arguments, and what will they have? Nothing! Give them a break!

Best,

D

]]> By: Richard Levangie http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17983 Richard Levangie Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:54:57 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17983 <blockquote>I expect to see a full debunking of this, Joe.</blockquote> I was going to blame the body buried deep in the glacier on a Yeti who had carried his prey back to his lair beneath the glacier, which he fashioned with his bare hands, and a few tools left behind by the aliens... you know, to try and pull a few conspiracy theories together.

I expect to see a full debunking of this, Joe.

I was going to blame the body buried deep in the glacier on a Yeti who had carried his prey back to his lair beneath the glacier, which he fashioned with his bare hands, and a few tools left behind by the aliens… you know, to try and pull a few conspiracy theories together.

]]> By: Peter Wood http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17984 Peter Wood Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:58:16 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17984 The arctic ice melt is yet another reason why we can't wait until something like 2015 before polluting activities attract a carbon price. The arctic ice melt is yet another reason why we can’t wait until something like 2015 before polluting activities attract a carbon price.

]]> By: davidgmills http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17987 davidgmills Tue, 26 Aug 2008 00:49:02 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17987 Here's the actual satellite photographic comparisons: http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/deetest/deetmp.14059.png Here’s the actual satellite photographic comparisons:

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/ cryosphere/ deetest/ deetmp.14059.png

]]> By: davidgmills http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17988 davidgmills Tue, 26 Aug 2008 00:54:56 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17988 Compare any two dates since 1980 http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh Compare any two dates since 1980

http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh

]]> By: Peter Wood http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17992 Peter Wood Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:38:34 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17992 Those are useful links davidgmills, it is always more interesting to look at the disaggregated data. The reduced ice east of Greenland looks like a bit of a worry. Those are useful links davidgmills, it is always more interesting to look at the disaggregated data.

The reduced ice east of Greenland looks like a bit of a worry.

]]> By: andy http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17997 andy Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:27:49 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17997 The poor guy and his stuff were frozen shortly after he died, if not the day he died (fell down a crack in the ice) and then remained frozen all this time. Now everything in the alps is thawing out due to AGW and there will be very little ice left up there by mid-century. Not too hard to understand. Blows the medieval was warmer and everyone grew grapes theories out of the water though. For goodness sake, the Alpine glaciers just started melting big time only a couple decades ago and we can already see their end in sight. How can anyone deny what's happening? A book I enjoyed reading was Locust by Lockwood. It talks about the race to investigate the history of locust plagues in north America before all evidence (frozen in western glaciers) melts away. The poor guy and his stuff were frozen shortly after he died, if not the day he died (fell down a crack in the ice) and then remained frozen all this time. Now everything in the alps is thawing out due to AGW and there will be very little ice left up there by mid-century. Not too hard to understand. Blows the medieval was warmer and everyone grew grapes theories out of the water though. For goodness sake, the Alpine glaciers just started melting big time only a couple decades ago and we can already see their end in sight. How can anyone deny what’s happening?

A book I enjoyed reading was Locust by Lockwood. It talks about the race to investigate the history of locust plagues in north America before all evidence (frozen in western glaciers) melts away.

]]> By: thingsbreak http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17998 thingsbreak Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:45:53 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-17998 Hasn't Frank Bi been chronicling the embrace of denier talking points by the mysterious Steven Goddard? He appeared, IIRC, at The Register fully formed, Athena-like from Climate Audit denialism. Hasn’t Frank Bi been chronicling the embrace of denier talking points by the mysterious Steven Goddard?

He appeared, IIRC, at The Register fully formed, Athena-like from Climate Audit denialism.

]]> By: jorleh http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-18002 jorleh Tue, 26 Aug 2008 06:33:10 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-18002 Deniers are of course idiots, there is no reason to argue with such blockheads. Only waste of the precious time. We have that time too short. Deniers are of course idiots, there is no reason to argue with such blockheads. Only waste of the precious time. We have that time too short.

]]> By: paulm http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-18019 paulm Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:28:55 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-18019 heres some Canadian input on the Climate Change issue up north... http://thetyee.ca/News/2007/04/12/ArcticMelt/ heres some Canadian input on the Climate Change issue up north…
http://thetyee.ca/News/2007/04/12/ArcticMelt/

]]> By: david http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-18109 david Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:09:13 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-18109 delurking... just for the record ('cause I was recently corrected as well): 'never mind' was the line of another gilda radner character: emily litella, not roseanne r-d. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Litella delurking… just for the record (’cause I was recently corrected as well): ‘never mind’ was the line of another gilda radner character: emily litella, not roseanne r-d.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Litella

]]> By: Marion Delgado http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-19510 Marion Delgado Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:20:27 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/#comment-19510 There are too many refutations to make and lies to stamp out to waste in further colloquy with these people - in orwell's phrase, half gangster, half gramophone. I recall Bradley R. Smith saying "the first thing you realize, very quickly, when you start looking into the Holocaust, is that no such thing ever occurred ...." and that he was a simple, libertarian, civil liberties loving American with no agenda whatsoever. Rinse and repeat for evolution denial, pollution denial, ozone denial, tobacco denial, etc. etc. etc. This bold assertion - bolder the more wrong you are - is their weapon and crutch of choice. There are too many refutations to make and lies to stamp out to waste in further colloquy with these people - in orwell’s phrase, half gangster, half gramophone.

I recall Bradley R. Smith saying “the first thing you realize, very quickly, when you start looking into the Holocaust, is that no such thing ever occurred ….” and that he was a simple, libertarian, civil liberties loving American with no agenda whatsoever.

Rinse and repeat for evolution denial, pollution denial, ozone denial, tobacco denial, etc. etc. etc.

This bold assertion - bolder the more wrong you are - is their weapon and crutch of choice.

]]>