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	<title>Comments on: Gore warns about McCain policies:  Hey, I believe in recycling, but that&#8217;s ridiculous.</title>
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 06:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Rick C</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18202</link>
		<author>Rick C</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 04:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18202</guid>
					<description>Joe, there's no if anymore about the northern polar ice cap. I have been listening to Professor Michio Kaku's program on our Pacifica Radio affiliate KPFT here in Houston and he has said on several occasions that the northern polar ice cap is lost no matter what we do. So I have to disagree with Al Gore on that one.

However I've been following Al Gore again since he did Inconvenient Truth and I have to say what a remarkable change he's undergone since his 2000 race and the post election blues when he grew that beard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, there&#8217;s no if anymore about the northern polar ice cap. I have been listening to Professor Michio Kaku&#8217;s program on our Pacifica Radio affiliate KPFT here in Houston and he has said on several occasions that the northern polar ice cap is lost no matter what we do. So I have to disagree with Al Gore on that one.</p>
<p>However I&#8217;ve been following Al Gore again since he did Inconvenient Truth and I have to say what a remarkable change he&#8217;s undergone since his 2000 race and the post election blues when he grew that beard.</p>
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		<title>By: Mauri Pelto</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18219</link>
		<author>Mauri Pelto</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18219</guid>
					<description>That speech deserves an ovation. Gore continues to be a source of inspiration that will help prompt us to responsible action on climate change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That speech deserves an ovation. Gore continues to be a source of inspiration that will help prompt us to responsible action on climate change.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18222</link>
		<author>Ben</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18222</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;we would not be denying the climate crisis; we’d be solving it.&lt;/blockquote&gt; It's nice to read, but also very sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>we would not be denying the climate crisis; we’d be solving it.</p></blockquote>
<p> It&#8217;s nice to read, but also very sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Dano</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18231</link>
		<author>Dano</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18231</guid>
					<description>Overall, has anyone ever seen an event where there were so many high-quality speeches? Michelle Obama, Hillary, Biden, Kerry, Gore, Barack Obama? Amazing. 

Best,

D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Overall, has anyone ever seen an event where there were so many high-quality speeches? Michelle Obama, Hillary, Biden, Kerry, Gore, Barack Obama? Amazing. </p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>D</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Prall</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18235</link>
		<author>Jim Prall</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18235</guid>
					<description>Dano - 
You said it. The Dems seem really energized and focused. As I watched Obama's speech last night, I kept thinking: when was the last time I heard a speech by any politician really drive home such a strong message with so much power? Sadly we lost a lot of time waiting for this day, watching the right kick sand in John Kerry's face and muddy the waters over and over. I'm not sure they are going to be able to "swiftboat" Obama this time. He may have too much momentum, credibility and core support.

This morning I got up early and read some more of Monbiot's _Heat_. His ch. 2 on the denial industry is now familiar ground (SEPP, TASSC, Milloy, Seitz and Singer.) It's striking how much these guys can make doing this stuff. Monbiot points readers to http://www.exxonsecrets.org for background on just how much money Exxon has poured into denialist astroturf front groups. Now maybe the next Big Lie we need to expose and document is the huge P.R. campaign by the not-yet-clean coal industry.

One interesting point Monbiot makes is that the key anti-climate astroturf groups were not *started* at Exxon's prompting; rather, the tobacco industry went looking for some cover for their specific line of disinformation, and their hired liars hit on the clever plan of building a false front of multiple anti-science agendas all thrown together. The intent seems to have been to allow big tobacco to fund front groups that said more than just "2nd hand smoke doesn't (necessarily) cause cancer" but that also denied lots of other science at the same time. That might help hide the craven tobacco agenda, suggests Monbiot. One big hit for this approach was to attach climate science. They then got additional money from Exxon, and the astroturf groups multipled and began popping up like weeds as this strategy started to pay off.

I know people who do real grassroots advocacy on health issues, and they struggle to pay the bills. A big ethical issue for them is refusal to accept any donations from drug companies, in order to maintain total independence to say whatever they must and to be free to criticize. Cleary the astroturf tycoons have no such ethical hesitation.

I got to wondering if there is any way to blunt this weapon of mass deception? Tougher financial disclosure rules for activist groups? For people coming to speak to Congress? For people giving "guest editorials" in magazines and newspapers? Of course there's ample room for money laundering through multi-stage channeling of the oil or coal blood money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dano -<br />
You said it. The Dems seem really energized and focused. As I watched Obama&#8217;s speech last night, I kept thinking: when was the last time I heard a speech by any politician really drive home such a strong message with so much power? Sadly we lost a lot of time waiting for this day, watching the right kick sand in John Kerry&#8217;s face and muddy the waters over and over. I&#8217;m not sure they are going to be able to &#8220;swiftboat&#8221; Obama this time. He may have too much momentum, credibility and core support.</p>
<p>This morning I got up early and read some more of Monbiot&#8217;s _Heat_. His ch. 2 on the denial industry is now familiar ground (SEPP, TASSC, Milloy, Seitz and Singer.) It&#8217;s striking how much these guys can make doing this stuff. Monbiot points readers to <a href="http://www.exxonsecrets.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.exxonsecrets.org</a> for background on just how much money Exxon has poured into denialist astroturf front groups. Now maybe the next Big Lie we need to expose and document is the huge P.R. campaign by the not-yet-clean coal industry.</p>
<p>One interesting point Monbiot makes is that the key anti-climate astroturf groups were not *started* at Exxon&#8217;s prompting; rather, the tobacco industry went looking for some cover for their specific line of disinformation, and their hired liars hit on the clever plan of building a false front of multiple anti-science agendas all thrown together. The intent seems to have been to allow big tobacco to fund front groups that said more than just &#8220;2nd hand smoke doesn&#8217;t (necessarily) cause cancer&#8221; but that also denied lots of other science at the same time. That might help hide the craven tobacco agenda, suggests Monbiot. One big hit for this approach was to attach climate science. They then got additional money from Exxon, and the astroturf groups multipled and began popping up like weeds as this strategy started to pay off.</p>
<p>I know people who do real grassroots advocacy on health issues, and they struggle to pay the bills. A big ethical issue for them is refusal to accept any donations from drug companies, in order to maintain total independence to say whatever they must and to be free to criticize. Cleary the astroturf tycoons have no such ethical hesitation.</p>
<p>I got to wondering if there is any way to blunt this weapon of mass deception? Tougher financial disclosure rules for activist groups? For people coming to speak to Congress? For people giving &#8220;guest editorials&#8221; in magazines and newspapers? Of course there&#8217;s ample room for money laundering through multi-stage channeling of the oil or coal blood money.</p>
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		<title>By: Dano</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18251</link>
		<author>Dano</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18251</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;I got to wondering if there is any way to blunt this weapon of mass deception? Tougher financial disclosure rules for activist groups? For people coming to speak to Congress? For people giving “guest editorials” in magazines and newspapers? Of course there’s ample room for money laundering through multi-stage channeling of the oil or coal blood money. &lt;/i&gt;

In my view, there is a...ahem..."market" for this sort of thing you decry. There is &lt;a href="http://www.claybennett.com/pages2/theaters.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;a segment of society&lt;/a&gt; that &lt;i&gt;needs&lt;/i&gt; this sort of narrative. 

IMHO this is an aspect of human nature where psychologically this narrative is preferred. Being an ecologist, I can absolutely empathize with Aldo Leopold who said "Having an ecological education means living in a world of wounds.". Some (many) can't function in such an environment, thus the need for the denial industry. Others look for an excuse for their behavior and look for such a narrative to justify it. 

That said, I'm a glass half-full guy (altho it is half-full of groundwater tainted by big ag) and Margaret Mead said "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.". Meaning: immovable object, irresistible force. 

Best, 

D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I got to wondering if there is any way to blunt this weapon of mass deception? Tougher financial disclosure rules for activist groups? For people coming to speak to Congress? For people giving “guest editorials” in magazines and newspapers? Of course there’s ample room for money laundering through multi-stage channeling of the oil or coal blood money. </i></p>
<p>In my view, there is a&#8230;ahem&#8230;&#8221;market&#8221; for this sort of thing you decry. There is <a href="http://www.claybennett.com/pages2/theaters.html" rel="nofollow">a segment of society</a> that <i>needs</i> this sort of narrative. </p>
<p>IMHO this is an aspect of human nature where psychologically this narrative is preferred. Being an ecologist, I can absolutely empathize with Aldo Leopold who said &#8220;Having an ecological education means living in a world of wounds.&#8221;. Some (many) can&#8217;t function in such an environment, thus the need for the denial industry. Others look for an excuse for their behavior and look for such a narrative to justify it. </p>
<p>That said, I&#8217;m a glass half-full guy (altho it is half-full of groundwater tainted by big ag) and Margaret Mead said &#8220;Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it&#8217;s the only thing that ever has.&#8221;. Meaning: immovable object, irresistible force. </p>
<p>Best, </p>
<p>D</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18260</link>
		<author>David B. Benson</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18260</guid>
					<description>Rick C --- All we have to do is sequester as much CO2 as is added by humans to the active carbon cycle and then sequester about 500 GtC more.

So far, nobody has started.  :-(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick C &#8212; All we have to do is sequester as much CO2 as is added by humans to the active carbon cycle and then sequester about 500 GtC more.</p>
<p>So far, nobody has started.  <img src='http://climateprogress.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18288</link>
		<author>Carl</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18288</guid>
					<description>Did Gore make this speech from his new twin 500hp turbo diesel powered million dollar house boat? He sets such a good example for the rest of us to follow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did Gore make this speech from his new twin 500hp turbo diesel powered million dollar house boat? He sets such a good example for the rest of us to follow.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Coleman</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18298</link>
		<author>Larry Coleman</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 20:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/28/gore-warns-about-mccain-policies-hey-i-believe-in-recycling-but-thats-ridiculous/#comment-18298</guid>
					<description>As much as I admire Gore's work, I think he misrepresented Lincoln's opposition to the Mexican-American war.  Gore said that during Lincoln's  "one term in Congress...he showed courage and wisdom to oppose the invasion of another country in a war that was popular when it started but later condemned by history."  According to David Herbert Donald's excellent bio of Lincoln, Lincoln was silent on the war before he went to Congress, commenting only that we should support the President during time of war.  (!) When he did get to Washington in 1847, when the war was essentially over, he finally began to attack Polk's conduct of the war, but his arguments were legalistic rather than principled (Were American troops on US soil when their blood was spilled, e.g.?), and amounted really to an attempt to weaken the Democrats in anticipation of the upcoming Presidential election.   Gore's version makes a nice story and I wish his inferences were true, but they are not, at least according to Donald.  I am a physicist, not a historian, so what do I know?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As much as I admire Gore&#8217;s work, I think he misrepresented Lincoln&#8217;s opposition to the Mexican-American war.  Gore said that during Lincoln&#8217;s  &#8220;one term in Congress&#8230;he showed courage and wisdom to oppose the invasion of another country in a war that was popular when it started but later condemned by history.&#8221;  According to David Herbert Donald&#8217;s excellent bio of Lincoln, Lincoln was silent on the war before he went to Congress, commenting only that we should support the President during time of war.  (!) When he did get to Washington in 1847, when the war was essentially over, he finally began to attack Polk&#8217;s conduct of the war, but his arguments were legalistic rather than principled (Were American troops on US soil when their blood was spilled, e.g.?), and amounted really to an attempt to weaken the Democrats in anticipation of the upcoming Presidential election.   Gore&#8217;s version makes a nice story and I wish his inferences were true, but they are not, at least according to Donald.  I am a physicist, not a historian, so what do I know?</p>
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