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	<title>Comments on: Pickens learns the hard truth:  Drill-only GOP hates alternative energy</title>
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:23:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bob Wallace</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19482</link>
		<author>Bob Wallace</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19482</guid>
					<description>Wonderful.  Another crack in the solid Republican world.

I don't think it necessary for Pickens to donate to Democrats.  He's more valuable as highly regarded person speaking truth to the myth. 

Pickins speaks and an audience totally different than the one who reads blogs like this listen.  You can't buy access like that with millions and millions of dollars.

What you're watching here is a person evolving.  Give him credit for his small steps and don't damn him because he hasn't become an overnight Avery Lovins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful.  Another crack in the solid Republican world.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it necessary for Pickens to donate to Democrats.  He&#8217;s more valuable as highly regarded person speaking truth to the myth. </p>
<p>Pickins speaks and an audience totally different than the one who reads blogs like this listen.  You can&#8217;t buy access like that with millions and millions of dollars.</p>
<p>What you&#8217;re watching here is a person evolving.  Give him credit for his small steps and don&#8217;t damn him because he hasn&#8217;t become an overnight Avery Lovins.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Wallace</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19493</link>
		<author>Bob Wallace</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19493</guid>
					<description>It occurs to me that greens might learn something from the 'born agains".

Lead a life of sin and degradation?  Screw over everyone around you?  Break every one of the Ten Commandments on a regular basis?  OK, you're scum.

But darken the door of a church and declare that you've seen the evil of your ways and want to change and you're welcomed with open arms.

Sure, people keep a close eye on you to see if your conversion is real or a scam, but if you stray a bit from the fold you are offered support, not condemnation.  

They end up turning around a lot of bad actors that way.

Greens might think about doing the same.

(I could also explain this to you in terms of behavior mod if you'd like a non-religious explanation of why we shouldn't punish Pickens for not being an instant tree-hugger.  ;o)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It occurs to me that greens might learn something from the &#8216;born agains&#8221;.</p>
<p>Lead a life of sin and degradation?  Screw over everyone around you?  Break every one of the Ten Commandments on a regular basis?  OK, you&#8217;re scum.</p>
<p>But darken the door of a church and declare that you&#8217;ve seen the evil of your ways and want to change and you&#8217;re welcomed with open arms.</p>
<p>Sure, people keep a close eye on you to see if your conversion is real or a scam, but if you stray a bit from the fold you are offered support, not condemnation.  </p>
<p>They end up turning around a lot of bad actors that way.</p>
<p>Greens might think about doing the same.</p>
<p>(I could also explain this to you in terms of behavior mod if you&#8217;d like a non-religious explanation of why we shouldn&#8217;t punish Pickens for not being an instant tree-hugger.  ;o)</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19503</link>
		<author>Tom</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19503</guid>
					<description>There is one issue that T. Boone Pickens has to work around.  The current electrical distribution system does not lend itself ti the development of wind power at the optimum sites and then transmitting that energy long distances to where it is needed.  The losses incurred in AC transmission were not considered significant when you could build generation plants near to the point of consumption.  A long haul electrical grid must be developed (probably using ultra-high voltage DC) to make wind and solar generation really work.

I would also like to see Pickens addressing the Solar question.  Large scale solar tower generation provides a 2nd benefit.  There is a lot of excess heat in the solar tower approach which can be used to desalinate ocean water.  Unless nobody has noticed, we are also running out of fresh water.   Solar tower generating systems has the potential to address both needs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is one issue that T. Boone Pickens has to work around.  The current electrical distribution system does not lend itself ti the development of wind power at the optimum sites and then transmitting that energy long distances to where it is needed.  The losses incurred in AC transmission were not considered significant when you could build generation plants near to the point of consumption.  A long haul electrical grid must be developed (probably using ultra-high voltage DC) to make wind and solar generation really work.</p>
<p>I would also like to see Pickens addressing the Solar question.  Large scale solar tower generation provides a 2nd benefit.  There is a lot of excess heat in the solar tower approach which can be used to desalinate ocean water.  Unless nobody has noticed, we are also running out of fresh water.   Solar tower generating systems has the potential to address both needs.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Wallace</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19504</link>
		<author>Bob Wallace</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19504</guid>
					<description>Isn't Pickens planning on building a HVDC line from his wind farms?  Or at least pushing to get one built....

Pickens has a lot of money and it's tempting to want to get him to do all the fixin'.  

Personally I'm really happy that he's doing some fixing.  Much better than spending his money/energy/influence resisting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t Pickens planning on building a HVDC line from his wind farms?  Or at least pushing to get one built&#8230;.</p>
<p>Pickens has a lot of money and it&#8217;s tempting to want to get him to do all the fixin&#8217;.  </p>
<p>Personally I&#8217;m really happy that he&#8217;s doing some fixing.  Much better than spending his money/energy/influence resisting.</p>
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		<title>By: Earl Killian</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19508</link>
		<author>Earl Killian</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19508</guid>
					<description>Tom, "Toilet-to-Tap" is being implemented in some places in the US (e.g. Orange County), and it is about one-fifth the energy to clean up sewage than to desalinate seawater.  The California's Department of Health Services says T2T is actually purer that highly coveted mountain spring water, though some find that hard to swallow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, &#8220;Toilet-to-Tap&#8221; is being implemented in some places in the US (e.g. Orange County), and it is about one-fifth the energy to clean up sewage than to desalinate seawater.  The California&#8217;s Department of Health Services says T2T is actually purer that highly coveted mountain spring water, though some find that hard to swallow.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19514</link>
		<author>Ronald</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19514</guid>
					<description>I've seen natural gas (methane gas) advertised to be used for cars.   But they don't have the same message that Pickens has that we should be reducing the use of natural gas used in electrical power generation.   Can't be to surprised.   Natural gas companies want to sell to elec. power plants and sell for use in cars and trucks (plus, of course, building and industrial heating.)    Don't worry, we'll just use up all of it so our kids and their kids won't have worry about what they might use natural gas for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen natural gas (methane gas) advertised to be used for cars.   But they don&#8217;t have the same message that Pickens has that we should be reducing the use of natural gas used in electrical power generation.   Can&#8217;t be to surprised.   Natural gas companies want to sell to elec. power plants and sell for use in cars and trucks (plus, of course, building and industrial heating.)    Don&#8217;t worry, we&#8217;ll just use up all of it so our kids and their kids won&#8217;t have worry about what they might use natural gas for.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19533</link>
		<author>Jay</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 01:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19533</guid>
					<description>The crisis in energy is the failure to act.  The technology exits for zero-carbon energy from wind and solar.  In fact several European countries are well above 50% renewable.  We can do it too.  NOW!

In a plan I call "WINDfall for America" a 3 cents-per-kWh on all electricity would generate $10 billion-per-month (yes, PER MONTH!) which could easily pay for the infrastructure needed to convert all residential, commercial and transportation energy use to electricity.

After that, the same 3 cents-per-kWh would generate about $900 billion per year to be used to offset costs for other peoples needs (SS, healthcare, etc).

If you don't believe me run the numbers available from the American Information Administration.

BUT ... also consider this.  The 3 cents-per-kWh is an INVESTMENT by "We the People" NOT a DONATION!  That means "We the People" reap the benefits of our investment, and "We the People" decide how the pay-off will be spent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The crisis in energy is the failure to act.  The technology exits for zero-carbon energy from wind and solar.  In fact several European countries are well above 50% renewable.  We can do it too.  NOW!</p>
<p>In a plan I call &#8220;WINDfall for America&#8221; a 3 cents-per-kWh on all electricity would generate $10 billion-per-month (yes, PER MONTH!) which could easily pay for the infrastructure needed to convert all residential, commercial and transportation energy use to electricity.</p>
<p>After that, the same 3 cents-per-kWh would generate about $900 billion per year to be used to offset costs for other peoples needs (SS, healthcare, etc).</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t believe me run the numbers available from the American Information Administration.</p>
<p>BUT &#8230; also consider this.  The 3 cents-per-kWh is an INVESTMENT by &#8220;We the People&#8221; NOT a DONATION!  That means &#8220;We the People&#8221; reap the benefits of our investment, and &#8220;We the People&#8221; decide how the pay-off will be spent.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19580</link>
		<author>Anon</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19580</guid>
					<description>Before praising Tboone, look deeper into what he is really after.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before praising Tboone, look deeper into what he is really after.</p>
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		<title>By: Rosa</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19670</link>
		<author>Rosa</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19670</guid>
					<description>Hello? What's progressive about industrializing rural and wild areas, most often against the wishes of the people who have to live with it, with hundreds of thousands of 400-ft-high wind turbines -- with new heavy-duty roads and high-voltage transmission lines -- to hopefully provide only a small fraction of our electricity?

It's not a fluke that Texas is the leader in wind power. It's part and parcel of the "drill, baby, drill" mentality. Progressives should demand "save, baby, save" before supporting yet more building of supply. Especially since wind requires that the rest of the grid remain in place, i.e., no fewer coal or nuclear plants, and more natural gas plants to balance the intermittent and highly variable production from wind. What's progressive about more degraded and fragmented wildlife habitat, altered wetlands, destruction of rural peace and quiet?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello? What&#8217;s progressive about industrializing rural and wild areas, most often against the wishes of the people who have to live with it, with hundreds of thousands of 400-ft-high wind turbines &#8212; with new heavy-duty roads and high-voltage transmission lines &#8212; to hopefully provide only a small fraction of our electricity?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a fluke that Texas is the leader in wind power. It&#8217;s part and parcel of the &#8220;drill, baby, drill&#8221; mentality. Progressives should demand &#8220;save, baby, save&#8221; before supporting yet more building of supply. Especially since wind requires that the rest of the grid remain in place, i.e., no fewer coal or nuclear plants, and more natural gas plants to balance the intermittent and highly variable production from wind. What&#8217;s progressive about more degraded and fragmented wildlife habitat, altered wetlands, destruction of rural peace and quiet?</p>
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		<title>By: Earl Killian</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19675</link>
		<author>Earl Killian</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19675</guid>
					<description>Rosa, "save, baby, save" is a great refrain.  Energy efficiency is clearly the most important thing we can do, and Climate Progress promotes it loudly.  Where I differ from what you wrote is that I hope wind and solar can together help shut down coal power plants and get rid of gasoline.  We have no choice but to make this work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rosa, &#8220;save, baby, save&#8221; is a great refrain.  Energy efficiency is clearly the most important thing we can do, and Climate Progress promotes it loudly.  Where I differ from what you wrote is that I hope wind and solar can together help shut down coal power plants and get rid of gasoline.  We have no choice but to make this work.</p>
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		<title>By: Rosa</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19759</link>
		<author>Rosa</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 22:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19759</guid>
					<description>I agree with your hope of shutting down coal plants and moving away from gasoline, but everything I've seen suggests that wind and solar won't help much there.

The energy in wind and sunlight is simply too diffuse to make it practical to convert on a large scale.

And as an ecologist, one has to consider what the effect would be of taking for human use alone so much of the energy that supports life on this planet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your hope of shutting down coal plants and moving away from gasoline, but everything I&#8217;ve seen suggests that wind and solar won&#8217;t help much there.</p>
<p>The energy in wind and sunlight is simply too diffuse to make it practical to convert on a large scale.</p>
<p>And as an ecologist, one has to consider what the effect would be of taking for human use alone so much of the energy that supports life on this planet.</p>
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		<title>By: Earl Killian</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19761</link>
		<author>Earl Killian</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 23:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19761</guid>
					<description>Rosa, the Earth receives 3.85 YJ (yotta joules, yotta = 10^24) of sunlight each year.  Current world energy use is around 500 EJ (exa joules, exa = 10^18) per year.  Thus the sun provides 7700 times what we use.  Sure, diverting 1 part in 7700 is likely to have some effect, but I think these numbers put it in context.  More importantly, the impact is surely less than digging up Carboniferous remains and burning them.

I am not sure what you mean by too diffuse.  The Earth receives a gigawatt of sunlight every square kilometer during the day.  That sunlight can be converted into electricity at reasonable efficiency.

The U.S. could get all of its electricity from a small portion of the desert Southwest, if we had the HVDC lines to transmit it.  For example, Ausra wrote,
&lt;blockquote&gt;Based on the current technology, a CLFR with SM3 and storage would require 1.5 square miles for 177 MW, translating a national land requirement equal to 23,418 km^2 or a square with 153 km sides.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rosa, the Earth receives 3.85 YJ (yotta joules, yotta = 10^24) of sunlight each year.  Current world energy use is around 500 EJ (exa joules, exa = 10^18) per year.  Thus the sun provides 7700 times what we use.  Sure, diverting 1 part in 7700 is likely to have some effect, but I think these numbers put it in context.  More importantly, the impact is surely less than digging up Carboniferous remains and burning them.</p>
<p>I am not sure what you mean by too diffuse.  The Earth receives a gigawatt of sunlight every square kilometer during the day.  That sunlight can be converted into electricity at reasonable efficiency.</p>
<p>The U.S. could get all of its electricity from a small portion of the desert Southwest, if we had the HVDC lines to transmit it.  For example, Ausra wrote,</p>
<blockquote><p>Based on the current technology, a CLFR with SM3 and storage would require 1.5 square miles for 177 MW, translating a national land requirement equal to 23,418 km^2 or a square with 153 km sides.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: MANK</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19804</link>
		<author>MANK</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 01:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19804</guid>
					<description>What do they say about pay back??????
T Boone has come to know what 49% of us knew in 2000 and 2004.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do they say about pay back??????<br />
T Boone has come to know what 49% of us knew in 2000 and 2004.</p>
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		<title>By: Earl Killian</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19805</link>
		<author>Earl Killian</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 02:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://climateprogress.org/2008/09/23/pickens-learns-the-hard-truth-drill-only-gop-hates-alternative-energy/#comment-19805</guid>
					<description>MANK, you mean 50.6% in 2000, and 48.3% in 2004.  Those were the anti-Republican percentages.  It is amazing how many people went over to the Dark Side from 2000 to 2004.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MANK, you mean 50.6% in 2000, and 48.3% in 2004.  Those were the anti-Republican percentages.  It is amazing how many people went over to the Dark Side from 2000 to 2004.</p>
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