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	<title>Comments on: Is the Chicago Climate Exchange selling &#8220;rip-offsets&#8221;?</title>
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	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Luc</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-24681</link>
		<dc:creator>Luc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-24681</guid>
		<description>Dear all,

From a European perspective, this American discussion on climate change looks new to me. May be was I ignorant but I have got the feeling that the election of Obama has opend the door to a new American policy to climate change. 

By chance, Europeans have come on that subject a little bit earlier. That is why we have some more experience in that. May be, since I have been working on that subject for a while, could I give some advice.

First, the words &quot;global warming&quot; look to me dangerous. In some areas, climate change will create indeed global warming. In some areas, it will be the opposite. Better to use appropriate wording to get sounder trust.

Second, I guess that the European experience could help the US to deliver quicker. Climate Change will probably force us to change some aspects of our ways of life. See for example that funny cartoon found on You Tube  http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=b1kf_axslfk. 

Hope it will help

Luc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear all,</p>
<p>From a European perspective, this American discussion on climate change looks new to me. May be was I ignorant but I have got the feeling that the election of Obama has opend the door to a new American policy to climate change. </p>
<p>By chance, Europeans have come on that subject a little bit earlier. That is why we have some more experience in that. May be, since I have been working on that subject for a while, could I give some advice.</p>
<p>First, the words &#8220;global warming&#8221; look to me dangerous. In some areas, climate change will create indeed global warming. In some areas, it will be the opposite. Better to use appropriate wording to get sounder trust.</p>
<p>Second, I guess that the European experience could help the US to deliver quicker. Climate Change will probably force us to change some aspects of our ways of life. See for example that funny cartoon found on You Tube  <a href="http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=b1kf_axslfk" rel="nofollow">http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=b1kf_axslfk</a>. </p>
<p>Hope it will help</p>
<p>Luc</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick McCully</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-22625</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick McCully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-22625</guid>
		<description>Joe - many thanks for the term rip-offsets, which the International Rivers climate team has now wholeheartedly adopted. See http://www.internationalrivers.org/en/blog/patrick-mccully/rip-offsets-thanks-joe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe &#8211; many thanks for the term rip-offsets, which the International Rivers climate team has now wholeheartedly adopted. See <a href="http://www.internationalrivers.org/en/blog/patrick-mccully/rip-offsets-thanks-joe." rel="nofollow">http://www.internationalrivers.org/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>en/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>blog/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>patrick-mccully/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>rip-offsets-thanks-joe.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20899</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20899</guid>
		<description>Vast majority means 90% of those sold in this country.  Read the links, including my earlier posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vast majority means 90% of those sold in this country.  Read the links, including my earlier posts.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Balbach</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20897</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Balbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20897</guid>
		<description>&quot;The bottom line: The vast majority of offsets are, at some level, just rip-offsets.&quot;

Really? What does &quot;vast majority&quot; mean? 51%? What does &quot;at some level&quot; mean? This is just polemical rhetoric based on one extreme example. How about a balanced overview first, then we can discuss &quot;bottom line&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The bottom line: The vast majority of offsets are, at some level, just rip-offsets.&#8221;</p>
<p>Really? What does &#8220;vast majority&#8221; mean? 51%? What does &#8220;at some level&#8221; mean? This is just polemical rhetoric based on one extreme example. How about a balanced overview first, then we can discuss &#8220;bottom line&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20890</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20890</guid>
		<description>Joe,

Offsets are inherently dissatisfying because you can&#039;t prove additionality. You&#039;re right to point out that some offsets are just flat-out fraudulent, while others are of dubious quality. However, there are also a variety of decent offsets--energy efficiency projects, renewable energy projects, co-generation projects that are made viable by offset income.

You have to parse out whether your difficulty is with offsets, or with the offset market. The latter is really the problem I think you&#039;re upset with--that consumers don&#039;t know what they&#039;re getting. I worked at GAO recently, and they released a report a couple months ago about what you&#039;re getting (or not getting) when you buy voluntary offsets:

http://www.gao.gov%2Fnew.items%2Fd081048.pdf&amp;ei=RWH_SLi-HYm4sAOO0705&amp;usg=AFQjCNGPzJU6XhlCv2pffc-A9zTj_mHbyw&amp;sig2=vwJ7PZTTx8H2EDsug84s1w

So indeed, take issue with that. As for offsets themselves, yes, quality is compromised in a lot of ways. The solution is not to do away with them, but rather to change the terms by which we generate them--for example, limiting project types theat are eligible, or moving to sectoral benchmark assessment instead of project-by-project basis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,</p>
<p>Offsets are inherently dissatisfying because you can&#8217;t prove additionality. You&#8217;re right to point out that some offsets are just flat-out fraudulent, while others are of dubious quality. However, there are also a variety of decent offsets&#8211;energy efficiency projects, renewable energy projects, co-generation projects that are made viable by offset income.</p>
<p>You have to parse out whether your difficulty is with offsets, or with the offset market. The latter is really the problem I think you&#8217;re upset with&#8211;that consumers don&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re getting. I worked at GAO recently, and they released a report a couple months ago about what you&#8217;re getting (or not getting) when you buy voluntary offsets:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gao.gov%2Fnew.items%2Fd081048.pdf&amp;ei=RWH_SLi-HYm4sAOO0705&amp;usg=AFQjCNGPzJU6XhlCv2pffc-A9zTj_mHbyw&amp;sig2=vwJ7PZTTx8H2EDsug84s1w" rel="nofollow">http://www.gao.gov%2Fnew.items%2Fd081048.pdf&amp;ei=RWH_SLi-HYm4sAOO0705&amp;usg=AFQjCNGPzJU6XhlCv2pffc-A9zTj_mHbyw&amp;sig2=vwJ7PZTTx8H2EDsug84s1w</a></p>
<p>So indeed, take issue with that. As for offsets themselves, yes, quality is compromised in a lot of ways. The solution is not to do away with them, but rather to change the terms by which we generate them&#8211;for example, limiting project types theat are eligible, or moving to sectoral benchmark assessment instead of project-by-project basis.</p>
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		<title>By: Angela</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20277</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 22:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20277</guid>
		<description>Joe, you&#039;re so right and I&#039;m jumping on the &quot;rip-offsets&quot; bandwagon!
http://www.ejmatters.com/2008/10/rip-offsets-i-love-it.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, you&#8217;re so right and I&#8217;m jumping on the &#8220;rip-offsets&#8221; bandwagon!<br />
<a href="http://www.ejmatters.com/2008/10/rip-offsets-i-love-it.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ejmatters.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2008/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>10/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>rip-offsets-i-love-it.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alyssa</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20267</link>
		<dc:creator>Alyssa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 19:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20267</guid>
		<description>come on yall stop thinking bout politics and worry bout the damn enviorment...................................................put whats important first...use your heads...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>come on yall stop thinking bout politics and worry bout the damn enviorment&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;put whats important first&#8230;use your heads&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20222</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20222</guid>
		<description>Fiddling while Rome burns.

http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/emis/usa.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fiddling while Rome burns.</p>
<p><a href="http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/emis/usa.html" rel="nofollow">http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/emis/usa.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20210</link>
		<dc:creator>David B. Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20210</guid>
		<description>Good lord.  Surely they could find somebody to use the methane to generate electricity?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good lord.  Surely they could find somebody to use the methane to generate electricity?</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Coleman</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20209</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/06/is-the-chicago-climate-exchange-selling-rip-offsets/#comment-20209</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;JR: Red herring? It is called “lack of additionality” and the vast majority of people would consider it fatal to an offset. After all if I’m paying you to do something that you were already doing and we’re going to do anyway, then I’m not offsetting anything. I’m just making a charitable donation.&lt;/I&gt;

No, Joe. (Geez! I thought I said it clearly but obviously not.)  In life we OFTEN - meaning, almost always - have to accept the not-go-good with the good.  Or as we say, not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  If the offset market for capturing landfill methane causes a lot of methane capture that would have not otherwise been captured, it is NOT a case of &quot;lack of additionality.&quot;  Even if there are some cases where there is no additionality.  You are being too idealistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>JR: Red herring? It is called “lack of additionality” and the vast majority of people would consider it fatal to an offset. After all if I’m paying you to do something that you were already doing and we’re going to do anyway, then I’m not offsetting anything. I’m just making a charitable donation.</i></p>
<p>No, Joe. (Geez! I thought I said it clearly but obviously not.)  In life we OFTEN &#8211; meaning, almost always &#8211; have to accept the not-go-good with the good.  Or as we say, not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  If the offset market for capturing landfill methane causes a lot of methane capture that would have not otherwise been captured, it is NOT a case of &#8220;lack of additionality.&#8221;  Even if there are some cases where there is no additionality.  You are being too idealistic.</p>
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