Comments on: Note to John McCain: Uncommitted Ohio voters just aren’t into nuclear power http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:18:00 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Cyril R. http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20732 Cyril R. Sat, 18 Oct 2008 13:47:00 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20732 @mike: the French want to start building LFTRs (or TMSR as they call them) somewhere in 2030-2040. That's too far out. The US should have a more ambitious programme, with several GW at least, no later than 2020. @mike: the French want to start building LFTRs (or TMSR as they call them) somewhere in 2030-2040. That’s too far out.

The US should have a more ambitious programme, with several GW at least, no later than 2020.

]]> By: mike http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20533 mike Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:48:36 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20533 Fortunately for the planet, but unfortunately for the U.S. and Canada, the French are firmly committed to developing Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors. http://lpsc.in2p3.fr/gpr/gpr/publicationsE.htm They are coming up with many new designs and we can be sure that they are patenting the ideas. Once we were world leaders in technology , but soon we will have to buy our technology from foreign countries. Come on America!! You were the first on the moon! sigh..... Fortunately for the planet, but unfortunately for the U.S. and Canada, the French are firmly committed to developing Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors.

http://lpsc.in2p3.fr/gpr/gpr/publicationsE.htm

They are coming up with many new designs and we can be sure that they are patenting the ideas.

Once we were world leaders in technology , but soon we will have to buy our technology from foreign countries.

Come on America!! You were the first on the moon! sigh…..

]]> By: Cyril R. http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20521 Cyril R. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:00:54 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20521 I agree that price is killing (or at least strongly breaking) nuclear power in the US right now. The opposition doesn't appear stronger right now than it was a few decades ago. Nuclear plants did get built massively back then, because they were cheap. Economics and more importantly, financing are the principal variables. It is no longer an interesting investment, although it does have quite some long term economics value. But investors don't care about that. I do think we need Kirk's crash program to develop a liquid fluoride thorium reactor and see how that works. I agree that price is killing (or at least strongly breaking) nuclear power in the US right now. The opposition doesn’t appear stronger right now than it was a few decades ago. Nuclear plants did get built massively back then, because they were cheap. Economics and more importantly, financing are the principal variables. It is no longer an interesting investment, although it does have quite some long term economics value. But investors don’t care about that.

I do think we need Kirk’s crash program to develop a liquid fluoride thorium reactor and see how that works.

]]> By: Finrod http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20411 Finrod Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:16:16 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20411 "Right now, new nuclear plants get all of the subsidies that wind gets, plus this absurd 80% loan guarantee, full liability protection, and expedited licensing." That's fascinating, Joe. Can you detail the full extent of the subsidies recieved by wind, solar and nuclear power so we can see once and for all that what you say is indeed so? I also imagine that because nuclear power is so heavily subsidised, there's no possible way that the US government could have collected more from the industry in taxes than it ever paid to it in the first place. A detailed breakdown of the flow of money back and forth between the nuclear industry and the government will surely further strengthen your case. Go right ahead. “Right now, new nuclear plants get all of the subsidies that wind gets, plus this absurd 80% loan guarantee, full liability protection, and expedited licensing.”

That’s fascinating, Joe. Can you detail the full extent of the subsidies recieved by wind, solar and nuclear power so we can see once and for all that what you say is indeed so?

I also imagine that because nuclear power is so heavily subsidised, there’s no possible way that the US government could have collected more from the industry in taxes than it ever paid to it in the first place. A detailed breakdown of the flow of money back and forth between the nuclear industry and the government will surely further strengthen your case. Go right ahead.

]]> By: Rachel Findley http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20362 Rachel Findley Thu, 09 Oct 2008 20:31:13 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20362 Thanks, Dave Benson, for the note on biochar and olivine mineralization. I'd like to learn more about these, especially olivine which is new to me. Can you send a link or a hard copy title? Thanks, Dave Benson, for the note on biochar and olivine mineralization. I’d like to learn more about these, especially olivine which is new to me. Can you send a link or a hard copy title?

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20361 David B. Benson Thu, 09 Oct 2008 20:18:01 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20361 Cost of sequestering CO2 is about $38 per tonne, using either biochar buriel or olivine mineralization. The later is prefered (by me) as the more permanent and with costs likely to fall. Cost of sequestering CO2 is about $38 per tonne, using either biochar buriel or olivine mineralization. The later is prefered (by me) as the more permanent and with costs likely to fall.

]]> By: Finrod http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20346 Finrod Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:29:55 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20346 [JR: Cost, cost, cost, cost + an industry that wouldn’t exist without the taxpayer taking a liability for a major accident and the taxpayer taking 80% of the financial risk.] As opposed to what? The subsidies given to solar and wind which cannot ever forseeably pay their own way? Nuclear is already competative with coal, and that's before the environmental damge of coal is factored into its cost... and after nuclear has already paid for its full lifecycle treatment. the continued opposition of environmentalists (self-styled) to nuclear power is worse than insane. [<em>JR: Gimme a break Once there is a price for carbon dioxide that reflects its actual damage to humanity, wind and solar will do just fine, thank you. <strong>Right now, new nuclear plants get all of the subsidies that wind gets, plus this absurd 80% loan guarantee, full liability protection, and expedited licensing</strong>. Why the heck do you obsess over the "continued opposition" of a group that doesn't have the political power to do anything? What has killed nuclear power is its price. All of the environmentalists are I know would be happy to have a real carbon price, utility regulations that treated all forms of power equally (including efficiency) and no government subsidies whatsoever for any power source. Nuclear power would instantly wither on the vine.</em>] [JR: Cost, cost, cost, cost + an industry that wouldn’t exist without the taxpayer taking a liability for a major accident and the taxpayer taking 80% of the financial risk.]

As opposed to what? The subsidies given to solar and wind which cannot ever forseeably pay their own way? Nuclear is already competative with coal, and that’s before the environmental damge of coal is factored into its cost… and after nuclear has already paid for its full lifecycle treatment. the continued opposition of environmentalists (self-styled) to nuclear power is worse than insane.

[JR: Gimme a break Once there is a price for carbon dioxide that reflects its actual damage to humanity, wind and solar will do just fine, thank you. Right now, new nuclear plants get all of the subsidies that wind gets, plus this absurd 80% loan guarantee, full liability protection, and expedited licensing.

Why the heck do you obsess over the "continued opposition" of a group that doesn't have the political power to do anything? What has killed nuclear power is its price. All of the environmentalists are I know would be happy to have a real carbon price, utility regulations that treated all forms of power equally (including efficiency) and no government subsidies whatsoever for any power source. Nuclear power would instantly wither on the vine.]

]]> By: Kirk Sorensen http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20341 Kirk Sorensen Thu, 09 Oct 2008 03:15:17 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20341 "“Cleanly and safely.” Right, Kirk." Mmm-kay, please point me to another US energy industry that can point to an operational record of zero deaths and whose wastes are entirely contained. Hydro? No. Coal? Hell no. Oil? Gas? Solar? Wind? Geothermal? No, no, no, no, and ... no. [<em>JR: Cost, cost, cost, cost + an industry that wouldn't exist without the taxpayer taking a liability for a major accident and the taxpayer taking 80% of the financial risk.</em>] ““Cleanly and safely.” Right, Kirk.”

Mmm-kay, please point me to another US energy industry that can point to an operational record of zero deaths and whose wastes are entirely contained.

Hydro? No.
Coal? Hell no.
Oil? Gas? Solar? Wind? Geothermal?

No, no, no, no, and … no.

[JR: Cost, cost, cost, cost + an industry that wouldn't exist without the taxpayer taking a liability for a major accident and the taxpayer taking 80% of the financial risk.]

]]> By: Lynn http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20337 Lynn Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:07:34 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20337 Andrew Revkin in The New York Times has a good discussion of the role of various forms of energy, including nuclear. The analysis indicates that even if we took on the risk of building 880 plants, the best t that would do is to help avoid no more than 10% of the increased emissions by 2050. http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/08/debating-the-facts-on-oil-nukes-climate/ Andrew Revkin in The New York Times has a good discussion of the role of various forms of energy, including nuclear.

The analysis indicates that even if we took on the risk of building 880 plants, the best t that would do is to help avoid no more than 10% of the increased emissions by 2050.
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/ 2008/ 10/ 08/ debating-the-facts-on-oil-nukes-climate/

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20326 David B. Benson Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:46:29 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/07/note-to-john-mccain-uncommitted-ohio-voters-just-arent-into-nuclear-power/#comment-20326 strasmangelo jones --- Nukes better for the environment than coal; life-cycle less pollution, including radioactives. strasmangelo jones — Nukes better for the environment than coal; life-cycle less pollution, including radioactives.

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