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	<title>Comments on: Hybrid production costs may drop two-thirds within 10 years</title>
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	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: msn nickleri</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-26431</link>
		<dc:creator>msn nickleri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-26431</guid>
		<description>The title is ‘Turning the Corner on Auto Efficiency,’ and it discusses the missed opportunities that American auto makers had.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The title is ‘Turning the Corner on Auto Efficiency,’ and it discusses the missed opportunities that American auto makers had.</p>
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		<title>By: Cyril R.</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-21044</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyril R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-21044</guid>
		<description>Well, electricity cost will probably go down in most of the US, but not just yet; it will take some time for the cheap and clean generation technologies to take over the current market (afterthought: no pun intended).

Not that it matters much, considering fuel cost per mile of electric traction versus oil based transport. Even expensive electricity still beats oil down to very unrealistic (low) price levels. OPEC is lowering production, they quite like high oil prices and so quite dislike the recent price drops. To some level, this seems justified; many investments in expensive oil have been made, and higher oil prices push conservation, efficiency, and alternatives better than most subsidies can. It&#039;d be a pity if relatively low oil prices slow the adoption of electric traction tech, and cause people to drive more rather than less, and buy more vehicles that are to big by any rational standard for their purpose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, electricity cost will probably go down in most of the US, but not just yet; it will take some time for the cheap and clean generation technologies to take over the current market (afterthought: no pun intended).</p>
<p>Not that it matters much, considering fuel cost per mile of electric traction versus oil based transport. Even expensive electricity still beats oil down to very unrealistic (low) price levels. OPEC is lowering production, they quite like high oil prices and so quite dislike the recent price drops. To some level, this seems justified; many investments in expensive oil have been made, and higher oil prices push conservation, efficiency, and alternatives better than most subsidies can. It&#8217;d be a pity if relatively low oil prices slow the adoption of electric traction tech, and cause people to drive more rather than less, and buy more vehicles that are to big by any rational standard for their purpose.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-20764</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 14:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-20764</guid>
		<description>I saw this article in our state&#039;s largest paper.   

http://www.startribune.com/business/31184844.html?elr=KArks:DCiU1OiP:DiiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU


The title is &#039;Turning the Corner on Auto Efficiency,&#039; and it discusses the missed opportunities that American auto makers had.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw this article in our state&#8217;s largest paper.   </p>
<p><a href="http://www.startribune.com/business/31184844.html?elr=KArks:DCiU1OiP:DiiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU" rel="nofollow">http://www.startribune.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>business/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>31184844.html?elr=KArks:DCiU1OiP:DiiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU</a></p>
<p>The title is &#8216;Turning the Corner on Auto Efficiency,&#8217; and it discusses the missed opportunities that American auto makers had.</p>
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		<title>By: shopa</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-20759</link>
		<dc:creator>shopa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 02:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-20759</guid>
		<description>When they make a hybrid Japanese Kei car, the mpg will be amazing.
See my website  www.safersmallcars.com for my plan to import Kei cars to America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When they make a hybrid Japanese Kei car, the mpg will be amazing.<br />
See my website  <a href="http://www.safersmallcars.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.safersmallcars.com</a> for my plan to import Kei cars to America.</p>
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		<title>By: John Mashey</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-20750</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mashey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-20750</guid>
		<description>In support of this point, there is a very strong analogy with the 1980s/1990s change in the mid-range part of the computer business, i.e., mincomputers/superminis.

1) At the beginning, any vendor (like Digital Equipment Corporation) build a product line that sometimes shared peripherals, but used complex CPUs built of multiple boards of logic, with different ones in low-end, mid-range, and high-end products. There were dozens of minicomputer companies.

Microprocessors were denigrated as useless for real computers.

2) Later on, micros got good enough to totally displace custom-designed minis, almost all minicomputer compnaies went out of business or radically changed.  High volumes lowered prices.  Custom designs gave way to use of 1, 2, 4, 8 ... standard micros, standard DRAMs, standard chipsets in different chassis ... and high volumes drove costs down.

3) As all-electric drive-trains (eventually) replace mechanicals, it is easy to think of auto families that:

a) Have 2-wheel or 4-wheel drive (2 choices)
b) Allow several different sized battery packs. (3? sizes)
c) Are easily either BEV or PHEV (2 choices)

That allows 2x2x3 = 12 possible choices, with more commonality of components, i.e., higher volume, lower cost.

Hence, this is hardly wishful thinking, but a good analogy with a well-understood inflection point in computing technology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In support of this point, there is a very strong analogy with the 1980s/1990s change in the mid-range part of the computer business, i.e., mincomputers/superminis.</p>
<p>1) At the beginning, any vendor (like Digital Equipment Corporation) build a product line that sometimes shared peripherals, but used complex CPUs built of multiple boards of logic, with different ones in low-end, mid-range, and high-end products. There were dozens of minicomputer companies.</p>
<p>Microprocessors were denigrated as useless for real computers.</p>
<p>2) Later on, micros got good enough to totally displace custom-designed minis, almost all minicomputer compnaies went out of business or radically changed.  High volumes lowered prices.  Custom designs gave way to use of 1, 2, 4, 8 &#8230; standard micros, standard DRAMs, standard chipsets in different chassis &#8230; and high volumes drove costs down.</p>
<p>3) As all-electric drive-trains (eventually) replace mechanicals, it is easy to think of auto families that:</p>
<p>a) Have 2-wheel or 4-wheel drive (2 choices)<br />
b) Allow several different sized battery packs. (3? sizes)<br />
c) Are easily either BEV or PHEV (2 choices)</p>
<p>That allows 2&#215;2x3 = 12 possible choices, with more commonality of components, i.e., higher volume, lower cost.</p>
<p>Hence, this is hardly wishful thinking, but a good analogy with a well-understood inflection point in computing technology.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Wallace</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-20749</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-20749</guid>
		<description>Barn door left open.  

Horse has left the building....

Increasing fuel efficiency standards would have driven car manufacturers to produce more efficient vehicles.  Would have done wonders for GM, Ford and Chrysler.  Had they been forced to do so, they would now have good, efficient cars and trucks coming off the lines and helping their bottom lines.  

But we might not need increased fuel efficiency standards in the future.   The market seems to have taken over.  Oil is not going to return to &quot;cheap&quot; and electricity is quite likely to become less expensive.

As electrics become more &quot;usable&quot;, as their ranges increase and recharge times decrease, people are going to impose efficiency standards with their purchasing decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barn door left open.  </p>
<p>Horse has left the building&#8230;.</p>
<p>Increasing fuel efficiency standards would have driven car manufacturers to produce more efficient vehicles.  Would have done wonders for GM, Ford and Chrysler.  Had they been forced to do so, they would now have good, efficient cars and trucks coming off the lines and helping their bottom lines.  </p>
<p>But we might not need increased fuel efficiency standards in the future.   The market seems to have taken over.  Oil is not going to return to &#8220;cheap&#8221; and electricity is quite likely to become less expensive.</p>
<p>As electrics become more &#8220;usable&#8221;, as their ranges increase and recharge times decrease, people are going to impose efficiency standards with their purchasing decisions.</p>
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		<title>By: John Mashey</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-20748</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mashey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-20748</guid>
		<description>Without wanting to argue between PHEV and BEV, it was nice to see the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/new-experience---driving-pleasure/story.aspx?guid=%7B42612B5A-3EF0-4425-A323-4F479652C413%7D&amp;dist=hppr&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BMW Mini-E&lt;/a&gt; test plans for BEV Mini E</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without wanting to argue between PHEV and BEV, it was nice to see the <a href="http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/new-experience---driving-pleasure/story.aspx?guid=%7B42612B5A-3EF0-4425-A323-4F479652C413%7D&amp;dist=hppr" rel="nofollow">BMW Mini-E</a> test plans for BEV Mini E</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-20738</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-20738</guid>
		<description>Which begs a question:  why is US legislation on fuel efficiency standards (worse yet, CAFE) lagging behind projected technological performance, rather than leading it?

We passed the SOx standard with no idea of how -- or whether -- car manufacturers could meet it.  The irony here, of course is that GM -- a company that fought the standards the hardest, came up with the catalytic converter and licensing it became a major source of revenue for them.

There&#039;s no reason we shouldn&#039;t have a 60 mpg standard by 2020; a 75 by 2025; and a 100 mpg by 2030.  None.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which begs a question:  why is US legislation on fuel efficiency standards (worse yet, CAFE) lagging behind projected technological performance, rather than leading it?</p>
<p>We passed the SOx standard with no idea of how &#8212; or whether &#8212; car manufacturers could meet it.  The irony here, of course is that GM &#8212; a company that fought the standards the hardest, came up with the catalytic converter and licensing it became a major source of revenue for them.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no reason we shouldn&#8217;t have a 60 mpg standard by 2020; a 75 by 2025; and a 100 mpg by 2030.  None.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-20718</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 23:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>cheap hybrids sound good if they come with a plug and a whole bunch of clean power from somewhere</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cheap hybrids sound good if they come with a plug and a whole bunch of clean power from somewhere</p>
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		<title>By: caerbannog</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-20715</link>
		<dc:creator>caerbannog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 23:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/17/hybrid-production-cost-may-drop-two-thirds-within-10-years/#comment-20715</guid>
		<description>This wouldn&#039;t be a bad time to invest in Toyota and Honda.  Their stock prices swooned with the rest of the market, and when the economy eventually recovers, Toyota and Honda will be the hybrid leaders, and they&#039;ll be doing business in an environment where there&#039;s less competition than there is now. (Ford, GM, etc may be out of business or bought out).

If you can tough out short-term negative investment returns, now would be a good time to start dollar-cost (or euro-cost or whatever) averaging into these companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This wouldn&#8217;t be a bad time to invest in Toyota and Honda.  Their stock prices swooned with the rest of the market, and when the economy eventually recovers, Toyota and Honda will be the hybrid leaders, and they&#8217;ll be doing business in an environment where there&#8217;s less competition than there is now. (Ford, GM, etc may be out of business or bought out).</p>
<p>If you can tough out short-term negative investment returns, now would be a good time to start dollar-cost (or euro-cost or whatever) averaging into these companies.</p>
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