Comments on: CCX sells rip-offsets: “It seemed a little suspicious that we could get money for doing nothing” http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:52:49 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: drct http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-32940 drct Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:32:16 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-32940 janitors <a href="http://car.hokends.com/mitsui/" rel="nofollow">secretaries</a> and administrators are also expected to receive the written warnings. janitors secretaries and administrators are also expected to receive the written warnings.

]]> By: Dan http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20929 Dan Thu, 23 Oct 2008 08:54:12 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20929 It's amazing when the people selling offsets happily announce that their projects aren't additional. Back in June I heard a couple of howlers on the BBC World Service in a programme about the CDM, and transcribed them at In Balance: http://inbalance.wordpress.com/2008/06/13/world-service-on-additionality/ (btw well done World Service for running a programme on the CDM!) It’s amazing when the people selling offsets happily announce that their projects aren’t additional.

Back in June I heard a couple of howlers on the BBC World Service in a programme about the CDM, and transcribed them at In Balance:

http://inbalance.wordpress.com/ 2008/ 06/ 13/ world-service-on-additionality/

(btw well done World Service for running a programme on the CDM!)

]]> By: Justin Felt http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20808 Justin Felt Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:05:06 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20808 I’d like to answer Larry Coleman's question: Do we know if at some level all offsets are rip-offsets? Regarding offsets, we must understand that putting all offsets into one category is not the way to evaluate it. There are offsets of high quality, and offsets of low quality. Which one predominates? Depends on which market you look at. If one were to look at the Clean Development Mechanism market, I would argue that most are high quality and additional (ie above and beyond business usual), and the UN Executive Board has recently elevated their requirements for certification even more. On the voluntary side, I would put offsets from Gold Standard, VCS, and California Climate Action Registry as well in that group. Outside of these standards, one can find that it is hard to ascertain the quality of the offsets, and surely a lot, if not most, of these would qualify as “rip-offsets.” Just as the meat industry, as an unregulated entity, was rife with abuse during the writing of Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle,” the carbon offset market should not be abandoned, but infused with greater levels of transparency, rules, and tighter monitoring. www.pointcarbon.com I’d like to answer Larry Coleman’s question: Do we know if at some level all offsets are rip-offsets?

Regarding offsets, we must understand that putting all offsets into one category is not the way to evaluate it. There are offsets of high quality, and offsets of low quality. Which one predominates? Depends on which market you look at.

If one were to look at the Clean Development Mechanism market, I would argue that most are high quality and additional (ie above and beyond business usual), and the UN Executive Board has recently elevated their requirements for certification even more. On the voluntary side, I would put offsets from Gold Standard, VCS, and California Climate Action Registry as well in that group.

Outside of these standards, one can find that it is hard to ascertain the quality of the offsets, and surely a lot, if not most, of these would qualify as “rip-offsets.” Just as the meat industry, as an unregulated entity, was rife with abuse during the writing of Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle,” the carbon offset market should not be abandoned, but infused with greater levels of transparency, rules, and tighter monitoring.

http://www.pointcarbon.com

]]> By: Jim Eager http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20802 Jim Eager Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:36:24 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20802 You're quite right about the Harper Conservatives, Brian D. At a candidates' meeting specifically on the subject of putting a price on carbon the local Con candidate did not mention the words "carbon," carbon dioxide," "carbon tax," "cap and trade," "global warming," or "climate change" once during the two-hour meeting. Not once. You’re quite right about the Harper Conservatives, Brian D. At a candidates’ meeting specifically on the subject of putting a price on carbon the local Con candidate did not mention the words “carbon,” carbon dioxide,” “carbon tax,” “cap and trade,” “global warming,” or “climate change” once during the two-hour meeting. Not once.

]]> By: Joe http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20798 Joe Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:24:30 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20798 Larry -- if you read some of the links to earlier blog posts, you'll see that I go through the most common offsets, which include trees and renewable energy certificates, and conclude that most offsets are rip-offsets. Larry — if you read some of the links to earlier blog posts, you’ll see that I go through the most common offsets, which include trees and renewable energy certificates, and conclude that most offsets are rip-offsets.

]]> By: Larry Coleman http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20797 Larry Coleman Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:20:44 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20797 I read the WSJ article this morning, then this post. The question I had while reading both was. How prevalent is this? By "this" I mean paying for "off-sets" that are already being done. Neither piece answered this, but Joe concluded his post with the statement that "The vast majority of offsets are, at some level, just rip-offsets." Do we really know that? I am willing to believe it if there is supportive data. Numbers really do matter here. Do we have any good idea of the % rip-offset? Without this, the situation is no different from being against welfare because some people take advantage of it. I read the WSJ article this morning, then this post. The question I had while reading both was. How prevalent is this? By “this” I mean paying for “off-sets” that are already being done. Neither piece answered this, but Joe concluded his post with the statement that “The vast majority of offsets are, at some level, just rip-offsets.” Do we really know that? I am willing to believe it if there is supportive data. Numbers really do matter here. Do we have any good idea of the % rip-offset? Without this, the situation is no different from being against welfare because some people take advantage of it.

]]> By: Brian D http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20796 Brian D Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:18:13 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20796 Joe, sorry for the off-topic, but this may prove interesting. Last week, Canada held its national election. The Conservative party won -- and they were the only party with no platform on climate change at all (their environmental pamphlet literally did not mention 'carbon', 'emissions', or 'climate', instead opting to mention a laundry list of issues that were more or less dealt with in the early 90s. It's almost as if they used Captain Planet torrents as their environmental consultant for the 21st century.). This party is notoriously stupid on climate issues -- our environment minister didn't know the difference between cap-and-trade and a carbon tax, for instance. Just yesterday, Prime Minister Stephen Harper basically cemented that affirmative action on climate mitigation is out the window. He's <a href="http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=678a23be-d9ea-4eda-a273-a43881ef67b4" rel="nofollow">dedicating $100 million to climate adaptation in third-world nations</a>, while continuing to encourage investments in Alberta's tar sands. I have an image in my head of a cannibal boiling an explorer alive, calling for more firewood while at the same time dabbing the explorer's forehead with a cool hankie. Joe, sorry for the off-topic, but this may prove interesting.

Last week, Canada held its national election. The Conservative party won — and they were the only party with no platform on climate change at all (their environmental pamphlet literally did not mention ‘carbon’, ‘emissions’, or ‘climate’, instead opting to mention a laundry list of issues that were more or less dealt with in the early 90s. It’s almost as if they used Captain Planet torrents as their environmental consultant for the 21st century.). This party is notoriously stupid on climate issues — our environment minister didn’t know the difference between cap-and-trade and a carbon tax, for instance.

Just yesterday, Prime Minister Stephen Harper basically cemented that affirmative action on climate mitigation is out the window. He’s dedicating $100 million to climate adaptation in third-world nations, while continuing to encourage investments in Alberta’s tar sands.

I have an image in my head of a cannibal boiling an explorer alive, calling for more firewood while at the same time dabbing the explorer’s forehead with a cool hankie.

]]> By: Joe http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20795 Joe Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:42:41 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20795 Not even close, Ronald. Rip-offsets are unregulated. Cap and Trade would be regulated. Not even close, Ronald.
Rip-offsets are unregulated.
Cap and Trade would be regulated.

]]> By: Ronald http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20794 Ronald Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:18:43 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/20/ccx-sells-rip-offsets-it-seemed-a-little-suspicious-that-we-could-get-money-for-doing-nothing/#comment-20794 Isn't one of the complaints of Cap and Trade that is just a huge mechanism for waste, fraud and abuse. The difference between free-market offsets to Cap and Trade is a government bureaucrat. Isn’t one of the complaints of Cap and Trade that is just a huge mechanism for waste, fraud and abuse. The difference between free-market offsets to Cap and Trade is a government bureaucrat.

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