Comments on: Greenland ice loss soars: Bad for you, great for bottled water biz http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:48:56 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Kathy http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-21060 Kathy Sun, 26 Oct 2008 02:06:53 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-21060 Wow! Thanks everyone! I really appreciate your taking the time out to help me. I'll definitely check out all of those resources, one by one. :) Wow! Thanks everyone! I really appreciate your taking the time out to help me. I’ll definitely check out all of those resources, one by one. :)

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20956 David B. Benson Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:13:20 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20956 Kathy --- Weart's "The Discovery of Global Warming" receives my recommendation. You might also like http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/ Kathy — Weart’s “The Discovery of Global Warming” receives my recommendation. You might also like

http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/

]]> By: Rick C http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20944 Rick C Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:30:02 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20944 Kathy, I third John and Ned Raynold's recommendations on starting with Joe's book Hell and Highwater which I eagerly read and realclimate.org. There's a beginners section at http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/start-here/ I would add another valuable resource created by our friends in Canada and their site is called desmogblog.com. They have a very valuable denier database at http://www.desmogblog.com/node/1272. If you here someone disputing the science of global warming you can type in their name and see if they have been bought by the oil, gas or coal industry. (Hint: many of these deniers, but not all, disputed the scientific evidence that linked tobacco to lung cancer and were working on behalf of the tobacco producer Philip-Morris.) Kathy,

I third John and Ned Raynold’s recommendations on starting with Joe’s book Hell and Highwater which I eagerly read and realclimate.org. There’s a beginners section at http://www.realclimate.org/ index.php/ archives/ 2007/ 05/ start-here/ I would add another valuable resource created by our friends in Canada and their site is called desmogblog.com. They have a very valuable denier database at http://www.desmogblog.com/node/1272. If you here someone disputing the science of global warming you can type in their name and see if they have been bought by the oil, gas or coal industry. (Hint: many of these deniers, but not all, disputed the scientific evidence that linked tobacco to lung cancer and were working on behalf of the tobacco producer Philip-Morris.)

]]> By: paulm http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20940 paulm Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:19:04 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20940 Kathy, Joe actually commented on this article here... Skeptics, unite!...</a> I thought this was a very cheeky attempt by National Post to confuse everyone. Not very responsible. Here are some sites that might help... Good site which is very comprehensive and accessible is..and it has all the links in to more detail. The Discovery of Global Warming http://www.aip.org/history/climate/ For graphs to give an overview see... http://www.globalwarmingart.com/ This site may be a bit mathematical but the graphs say it all... http://residualanalysis.blogspot.com/ For beginners at realclimate start here... http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/start-here/ New Scientist has a lot on this...don't know if you read this article... <b>Climate change: A guide for the perplexed</b> http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn11462 Reliable Climate change details from UK... http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/myths/ Scientific_consensus_on_global_warming...list of scientific groups with statements on climate change. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus_on_global_warming Kathy, Joe actually commented on this article here…

Skeptics, unite!…

I thought this was a very cheeky attempt by National Post to confuse everyone. Not very responsible.

Here are some sites that might help…

Good site which is very comprehensive and accessible is..and it has all the links in to more detail.
The Discovery of Global Warming
http://www.aip.org/history/climate/

For graphs to give an overview see…
http://www.globalwarmingart.com/

This site may be a bit mathematical but the graphs say it all…
http://residualanalysis.blogspot.com/

For beginners at realclimate start here…
http://www.realclimate.org/ index.php/ archives/ 2007/ 05/ start-here/

New Scientist has a lot on this…don’t know if you read this article…
Climate change: A guide for the perplexed
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn11462

Reliable Climate change details from UK…
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/myths/

Scientific_consensus_on_global_warming…list of scientific groups with statements on climate change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ Scientific_consensus_on_global_warming

]]> By: Sasparilla http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20939 Sasparilla Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:16:21 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20939 They should name the bottled water - Global Warming...I bet it would sell like crazy. They should name the bottled water – Global Warming…I bet it would sell like crazy.

]]> By: Richard http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20935 Richard Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:47:35 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20935 Kathy... All of the above suggestions are great. I love this blog, and Joe is both prolific and insightful. And in a blatant attempt at self-promotion, I assembled a series of links that help you get answers to some myths from sites like Grist and New Scientist: http://www.anythingbutconservative.com/global-warming-resources.html Also see astroturfing... how big companies invented a new system of guerilla marketing to muddy the waters. It begins with the tobacco companies.. http://www.anythingbutconservative.com/astroturfing.html Kathy…

All of the above suggestions are great. I love this blog, and Joe is both prolific and insightful.

And in a blatant attempt at self-promotion, I assembled a series of links that help you get answers to some myths from sites like Grist and New Scientist:

http://www.anythingbutconservative.com/global-warming-resources.html

Also see astroturfing… how big companies invented a new system of guerilla marketing to muddy the waters. It begins with the tobacco companies..

http://www.anythingbutconservative.com/astroturfing.html

]]> By: mauri pelto http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20934 mauri pelto Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:37:23 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20934 Without standing on the Greenland Ice Sheet it is hard to the scale. I work on three different scales of glaciers. North Cascades small glaciers average one mile long. Even these small glaciers will generally take 50-100 years to disappear with the current climate or modest warming. Alaskan icefields, these glaciers will take even longer to disappear and will need much more warming before they do. GIS amazing size, even with dynamic thinning leading the way this ice sheet will not come close to disappearing even in several centuries. This is despite my recent article posted at RealClimate indicating the amazingly synchronous nature of retreat, acceleration and thinning. http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/10/what-links-the-retreat-of-jakobshavn-isbrae-wilkins-ice-shelf-and-the-petermann-glacier/ Without standing on the Greenland Ice Sheet it is hard to the scale. I work on three different scales of glaciers. North Cascades small glaciers average one mile long. Even these small glaciers will generally take 50-100 years to disappear with the current climate or modest warming. Alaskan icefields, these glaciers will take even longer to disappear and will need much more warming before they do. GIS amazing size, even with dynamic thinning leading the way this ice sheet will not come close to disappearing even in several centuries. This is despite my recent article posted at RealClimate indicating the amazingly synchronous nature of retreat, acceleration and thinning. http://www.realclimate.org/ index.php/ archives/ 2008/ 10/ what-links-the-retreat-of-jakobshavn-isbrae-wilkins-ice-shelf-and-the-petermann-glacier/

]]> By: Ned Raynolds http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20932 Ned Raynolds Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:40:10 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20932 I heartily agree with the recommendation above of the site "realclimate.org" Also, if you're open to other media, I'd recommend a book recently published called "Dire Predictions: Understanding Global Warming" subtitle "An Illustrated Guide to the Findings of the IPCC" by Michael Mann and Lee R. Kump. It's on Amazon for $16.50. Both are distinguished scientists associated w/Penn State's Earth Systems Science Center; Mann has been a lead author and reviewer for the IPCC's Assessment Reports. I heartily agree with the recommendation above of the site “realclimate.org”
Also, if you’re open to other media, I’d recommend a book recently published called “Dire Predictions: Understanding Global Warming” subtitle “An Illustrated Guide to the Findings of the IPCC” by Michael Mann and Lee R. Kump. It’s on Amazon for $16.50. Both are distinguished scientists associated w/Penn State’s Earth Systems Science Center; Mann has been a lead author and reviewer for the IPCC’s Assessment Reports.

]]> By: john http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20926 john Thu, 23 Oct 2008 03:27:30 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20926 Kathy: For starters, this site is good; Joe's Book is great. RealClimate.org is good. My advice is to pay attention to information from peer-reviewed articles, the IPCC, and to watch who funded any study or organization making climate claims. Peer-reviews assure that the claims in an article were subject to rigorous scrutiny. There's a lot of pure crap out there -- people like Lomborg, pielke et. al., who make assertions and out of context claims. Don't be confused by claims and counter claims. At the end of the day, there is very little disagreement within the scientific community about this issue. And science is really the only way we have of investigating GW. Peer-reviews keep the science honest, and of a high quality. You don't have to read the arcane journals themselves, but you should see what the popular press is basing their stories and claims on -- if it's opinions -- well, as the old saying goes, opinions are like *** holes -- everyone's got one. If, however, they're quoting a peer-reviewed study or a scientist who frequently produces them, then it's credible. And of course, if the person belongs to an organization that gets most of its funding from an oil company, coal company or utility, well -- I wouldn't pay any attention to anything they say or write. Kathy:

For starters, this site is good; Joe’s Book is great. RealClimate.org is good.

My advice is to pay attention to information from peer-reviewed articles, the IPCC, and to watch who funded any study or organization making climate claims.

Peer-reviews assure that the claims in an article were subject to rigorous scrutiny.

There’s a lot of pure crap out there — people like Lomborg, pielke et. al., who make assertions and out of context claims.

Don’t be confused by claims and counter claims. At the end of the day, there is very little disagreement within the scientific community about this issue. And science is really the only way we have of investigating GW. Peer-reviews keep the science honest, and of a high quality.

You don’t have to read the arcane journals themselves, but you should see what the popular press is basing their stories and claims on — if it’s opinions — well, as the old saying goes, opinions are like *** holes — everyone’s got one. If, however, they’re quoting a peer-reviewed study or a scientist who frequently produces them, then it’s credible.

And of course, if the person belongs to an organization that gets most of its funding from an oil company, coal company or utility, well — I wouldn’t pay any attention to anything they say or write.

]]> By: ED http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20925 ED Thu, 23 Oct 2008 03:21:12 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/22/greenland-ice-loss-soars-bad-for-you-great-for-bottled-water-biz/#comment-20925 Joseph, you wrote: "The misconception that the planet stopped warming in 1998 stems more from our limited number of temperature stations in the Arctic than from any genuine trend." on Grist. Please for the love of mercy don't perpetuate the myth that HAD it been true that 1998 was the warmest year to date, then it Would have meant "the planet stopped warming in 1998" that is exactly what your statement is perpetuating, that myth, so you're helping the "there's no global warming" crowd, please please be more careful withyour words given how many readers you have. Say something like "The misconception that the planet stopped warming in 1998 stems from Both our limited number of...And from a gross misunderstanding of the difference between 'the record hasn't been broken' and 'the trend is no warming'" or something like that. Please, the Earth's future depends on not accidentally helping the liars..thank you for listening and for your work. Joseph, you wrote: “The misconception that the planet stopped warming in 1998 stems more from our limited number of temperature stations in the Arctic than from any genuine trend.” on Grist. Please for the love of mercy don’t perpetuate the myth that HAD it been true that 1998 was the warmest year to date, then it Would have meant “the planet stopped warming in 1998″ that is exactly what your statement is perpetuating, that myth, so you’re helping the “there’s no global warming” crowd, please please be more careful withyour words given how many readers you have.

Say something like “The misconception that the planet stopped warming in 1998 stems from Both our limited number of…And from a gross misunderstanding of the difference between ‘the record hasn’t been broken’ and ‘the trend is no warming’” or something like that. Please, the Earth’s future depends on not accidentally helping the liars..thank you for listening and for your work.

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