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	<title>Comments on: NBC News ignores climate change, blows the bark beetle story</title>
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	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Dano</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21096</link>
		<dc:creator>Dano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21096</guid>
		<description>I disagree with Tim Hurst for Intermountain West fire suppression. Where the MPB is most severe, the Fire Return Interval (FRI) is longer than the current period of suppression. In BC this may be the case, but not in the Intermountain West. 

Remember: the suppression period is ~80-100 years, but for most lodgepole in the Rockies the FRI is ~150-250 years (wide variations in location, elevation, aspect and mean precip.). 

Best,

D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with Tim Hurst for Intermountain West fire suppression. Where the MPB is most severe, the Fire Return Interval (FRI) is longer than the current period of suppression. In BC this may be the case, but not in the Intermountain West. </p>
<p>Remember: the suppression period is ~80-100 years, but for most lodgepole in the Rockies the FRI is ~150-250 years (wide variations in location, elevation, aspect and mean precip.). </p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>D</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn J</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21091</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21091</guid>
		<description>There was extensive beetle kill in the CO Rockies in the 30&#039;s.  We still find jerry-cans of old pesticide that the army used in vain in an attempt to stop it when we go elk hunting...

It is not an unnatural occurance, but it was exacerbated due to a mild drought that has weakened the trees.  

It is expected to require sustained sub-zero temperatures for at least 2 weeks to serious drop the beetle population - not a normal occurance in the forests of CO for most years</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was extensive beetle kill in the CO Rockies in the 30&#8217;s.  We still find jerry-cans of old pesticide that the army used in vain in an attempt to stop it when we go elk hunting&#8230;</p>
<p>It is not an unnatural occurance, but it was exacerbated due to a mild drought that has weakened the trees.  </p>
<p>It is expected to require sustained sub-zero temperatures for at least 2 weeks to serious drop the beetle population &#8211; not a normal occurance in the forests of CO for most years</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Hurst</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21064</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Hurst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 05:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21064</guid>
		<description>The one thing I&#039;d like to add to this conversation is that the explosion of the mountain pine beetle infestation is very real, and while it is being exacerbated by warmer winters less moisture, it is also an artifact of the culture of fire suppression that dominated the US Forest Service for over a century. 

Preventing forest fires from ever burning through these lodgelpole forests has kept alive trees that would have otherwise died off -- trees which become old, weak and susceptible to the ravenous pine beetle.

That said, I couldn&#039;t agree with Joe more, for NBC to complete ignore such a critical component of the outbreak is irresponsible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The one thing I&#8217;d like to add to this conversation is that the explosion of the mountain pine beetle infestation is very real, and while it is being exacerbated by warmer winters less moisture, it is also an artifact of the culture of fire suppression that dominated the US Forest Service for over a century. </p>
<p>Preventing forest fires from ever burning through these lodgelpole forests has kept alive trees that would have otherwise died off &#8212; trees which become old, weak and susceptible to the ravenous pine beetle.</p>
<p>That said, I couldn&#8217;t agree with Joe more, for NBC to complete ignore such a critical component of the outbreak is irresponsible.</p>
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		<title>By: gaiasdaughter</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21042</link>
		<dc:creator>gaiasdaughter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21042</guid>
		<description>Joe wrote: &quot;This catastrophic climate change impact and its carbon-cycle feedback were not foreseen even a decade ago — which suggests future climate impacts will bring other equally unpleasant surprises, especially if we don’t reverse our emissions path immediately.&quot;

As I see it, this is key.  Throughout history, there have always been jokers in the deck -- the effects no one predicted.  I&#039;m afraid Mother Nature may have a few more jokers up her sleeve this time, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe wrote: &#8220;This catastrophic climate change impact and its carbon-cycle feedback were not foreseen even a decade ago — which suggests future climate impacts will bring other equally unpleasant surprises, especially if we don’t reverse our emissions path immediately.&#8221;</p>
<p>As I see it, this is key.  Throughout history, there have always been jokers in the deck &#8212; the effects no one predicted.  I&#8217;m afraid Mother Nature may have a few more jokers up her sleeve this time, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Sydni Moser</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21037</link>
		<dc:creator>Sydni Moser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 04:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21037</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m definately going to write to NBC and give them my 2 cents...  We have to demand that broadcast media tell the whole truth, and inform American&#039;s of the reality of global warming in our environment....  It&#039;s the least I can do to write them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m definately going to write to NBC and give them my 2 cents&#8230;  We have to demand that broadcast media tell the whole truth, and inform American&#8217;s of the reality of global warming in our environment&#8230;.  It&#8217;s the least I can do to write them.</p>
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		<title>By: llewelly</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21031</link>
		<dc:creator>llewelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 02:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21031</guid>
		<description>The CO and UT pine beetle infestations of the late 1980s did not have the severity or the extent of the infestations of today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The CO and UT pine beetle infestations of the late 1980s did not have the severity or the extent of the infestations of today.</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21024</link>
		<dc:creator>David B. Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 23:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21024</guid>
		<description>Maurizio Morabito --- Climate modelers predict that as AGW proceeds, it will be wetter where it is wet and dryer where it is dry, in general.

By the way, Central America has just suffered an intense rain, with resulting heavy flooding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maurizio Morabito &#8212; Climate modelers predict that as AGW proceeds, it will be wetter where it is wet and dryer where it is dry, in general.</p>
<p>By the way, Central America has just suffered an intense rain, with resulting heavy flooding.</p>
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		<title>By: Dano</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21023</link>
		<dc:creator>Dano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21023</guid>
		<description>Mauritzio obviously doesn&#039;t live in Colorado. Come out here, lad and we&#039;ll show ya about lodgepole and Engelmann. I&#039;m sure it won&#039;t change your mind, but we&#039;ll show ya 

BTW, for others, OR lodgepole occupies a different niche than in the Rockies, and in the PacNW this makes it more resilient to beetle infestation. &lt;i&gt;Scale&lt;/i&gt;.

Best,

D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mauritzio obviously doesn&#8217;t live in Colorado. Come out here, lad and we&#8217;ll show ya about lodgepole and Engelmann. I&#8217;m sure it won&#8217;t change your mind, but we&#8217;ll show ya </p>
<p>BTW, for others, OR lodgepole occupies a different niche than in the Rockies, and in the PacNW this makes it more resilient to beetle infestation. <i>Scale</i>.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>D</p>
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		<title>By: William Greene</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21019</link>
		<dc:creator>William Greene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21019</guid>
		<description>Go for it Jean!  I agree with you, even though environmentalism is now a massive global movement, it&#039;s seems like in many ways we are failing horribly to get the message across.  I believe if we keep at it, eventually global warming/environment will be a TOP issue, the problem is we do not have unlimited time.  We have to get away from the image of environmentalists as pot-smoking hippies and move it mainstream.  There are a lot of &quot;Rush Limbaugh&#039;s&quot; out there who are turned off by that.  Also we need to vehemitly fight the notion of &quot;clean coal&quot; and begin a naionwide campaign to SHUT DOWN COAL PLANTS!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go for it Jean!  I agree with you, even though environmentalism is now a massive global movement, it&#8217;s seems like in many ways we are failing horribly to get the message across.  I believe if we keep at it, eventually global warming/environment will be a TOP issue, the problem is we do not have unlimited time.  We have to get away from the image of environmentalists as pot-smoking hippies and move it mainstream.  There are a lot of &#8220;Rush Limbaugh&#8217;s&#8221; out there who are turned off by that.  Also we need to vehemitly fight the notion of &#8220;clean coal&#8221; and begin a naionwide campaign to SHUT DOWN COAL PLANTS!!</p>
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		<title>By: Maurizio Morabito</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21016</link>
		<dc:creator>Maurizio Morabito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 21:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/24/nbc-news-ignores-climate-change-blows-the-bark-beetle-story/#comment-21016</guid>
		<description>Something to ponder:

(a) From the &lt;a href=&quot;http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE6DE1139F936A1575AC0A96E948260&amp;sec=&amp;spon=&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;New York Times, 9/25/1998&lt;/a&gt;
&quot;[Because of mountain pine beetles] By the year 2000, most of the lodgepole pine in Oregon &#039;&#039;will be dead, whether it is harvested or not&#039;, said Ed Blaydon, a marketing specialist for the four national forests in southeastern Oregon.&quot; (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.oregonforests.org/flow/watershed/forest_types/pico.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Lodgepole pines are alive and well in Oregon&lt;/a&gt; in 2008)

(b) From the &lt;a href=&quot;http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE7D91730F935A35755C0A96F948260&amp;sec=&amp;spon=&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;New York Times, 6/6/1989&lt;/a&gt;
[in Summit County, Colorado, because of mountain pine beetles] in 1986 [...] green vistas turned rust

(c) From the &lt;a href=&quot;http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50917FC345516738DDDAF0894DA415B828FF1D3&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;New York Times, 12/6/1932&lt;/a&gt;
&quot;Director Horace Albright reports that he is greatly worried about the situation in the Yellowstone, where the mountain-pine beetle threatens the destruction of the lodgepole pine, which constitutes 80 per cent of the park&#039;s forests&quot;

(d) From the &lt;a href=&quot;http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9A02E3DB103EE033A25755C0A9669D946697D6CF&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;New York Times, 10/6/2007&lt;/a&gt;
&quot;the mountain [pine] beetle refuses anything short of a high altitude. Here it abounds in destructive numbers, especially in the West: and as fast as it travels through those salubrious regions down go vast quantities of pine&quot;

If you&#039;d read the article of 101 years ago, you&#039;d think we&#039;d have no trees left whatsoever by now. It didn&#039;t happen. One worders why.

[&lt;em&gt;JR:  101 years ago we hadn&#039;t entered a multi-decade period of warming and desertification.  That&#039;s why.&lt;/em&gt;]

ps the not-so-mild 2008 winter has not killed as many beetles as expected. perhaps temperature is not that important.

[&lt;em&gt;JR:  Temperature is one of several factors that act synergistically, as my post and the science says.  Again, one should distinguish between happens year-to-year versus what happens over extended period of time.&lt;/em&gt;]

pps you take as a given that local &quot;warmer, drier&quot; conditions are consequence of global warming. on what basis?

[&lt;em&gt;JR:  I don&#039;t take it as a given.  I take it on the basis of the scientific literature.  If you&#039;ve read the post than you know about the &quot;global-warming-type drought.&quot;  I will blog more on this after the election.&lt;/em&gt;]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something to ponder:</p>
<p>(a) From the <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE6DE1139F936A1575AC0A96E948260&amp;sec=&amp;spon=" rel="nofollow">New York Times, 9/25/1998</a><br />
&#8220;[Because of mountain pine beetles] By the year 2000, most of the lodgepole pine in Oregon &#8221;will be dead, whether it is harvested or not&#8217;, said Ed Blaydon, a marketing specialist for the four national forests in southeastern Oregon.&#8221; (<a href="http://www.oregonforests.org/flow/watershed/forest_types/pico.htm" rel="nofollow">Lodgepole pines are alive and well in Oregon</a> in 2008)</p>
<p>(b) From the <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE7D91730F935A35755C0A96F948260&amp;sec=&amp;spon=" rel="nofollow">New York Times, 6/6/1989</a><br />
[in Summit County, Colorado, because of mountain pine beetles] in 1986 [...] green vistas turned rust</p>
<p>(c) From the <a href="http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50917FC345516738DDDAF0894DA415B828FF1D3" rel="nofollow">New York Times, 12/6/1932</a><br />
&#8220;Director Horace Albright reports that he is greatly worried about the situation in the Yellowstone, where the mountain-pine beetle threatens the destruction of the lodgepole pine, which constitutes 80 per cent of the park&#8217;s forests&#8221;</p>
<p>(d) From the <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9A02E3DB103EE033A25755C0A9669D946697D6CF" rel="nofollow">New York Times, 10/6/2007</a><br />
&#8220;the mountain [pine] beetle refuses anything short of a high altitude. Here it abounds in destructive numbers, especially in the West: and as fast as it travels through those salubrious regions down go vast quantities of pine&#8221;</p>
<p>If you&#8217;d read the article of 101 years ago, you&#8217;d think we&#8217;d have no trees left whatsoever by now. It didn&#8217;t happen. One worders why.</p>
<p>[<em>JR:  101 years ago we hadn't entered a multi-decade period of warming and desertification.  That's why.</em>]</p>
<p>ps the not-so-mild 2008 winter has not killed as many beetles as expected. perhaps temperature is not that important.</p>
<p>[<em>JR:  Temperature is one of several factors that act synergistically, as my post and the science says.  Again, one should distinguish between happens year-to-year versus what happens over extended period of time.</em>]</p>
<p>pps you take as a given that local &#8220;warmer, drier&#8221; conditions are consequence of global warming. on what basis?</p>
<p>[<em>JR:  I don't take it as a given.  I take it on the basis of the scientific literature.  If you've read the post than you know about the "global-warming-type drought."  I will blog more on this after the election.</em>]</p>
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