Comments on: China to invest $280 billion on 30% expansion in rail network “as a stimulus measure” http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:53:52 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Tony P. http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21157 Tony P. Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:01:29 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21157 There is a very interesting video called "Taken for a Ride". It spells out in detail how the big auto makers killed public transit in several large cities in the United States. This may be hard to believe but New York LA, Philadelphia and many other cites had very intricate street car systems that worked. However GM through a very aggressive propaganda campaign convinced local governments, and the public that "street cars" were old, and buses were new. Outside of the East coast inner city train travel is non existent. In fact, there is no public bus service that can take you from Detroit's airport to downtown. There is a very interesting video called “Taken for a Ride”. It spells out in detail how the big auto makers killed public transit in several large cities in the United States. This may be hard to believe but New York LA, Philadelphia and many other cites had very intricate street car systems that worked. However GM through a very aggressive propaganda campaign convinced local governments, and the public that “street cars” were old, and buses were new. Outside of the East coast inner city train travel is non existent. In fact, there is no public bus service that can take you from Detroit’s airport to downtown.

]]> By: charlie http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21154 charlie Wed, 29 Oct 2008 02:16:57 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21154 Yeah, canals are a great wedge. Go check out Three Gorges. Yeah, canals are a great wedge. Go check out Three Gorges.

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21153 David B. Benson Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:30:12 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21153 llewelly --- Yes. I was thinking of intercity, but failed to state that. Even in that case, it could easily depend upon routes and desired travel times. llewelly — Yes. I was thinking of intercity, but failed to state that. Even in that case, it could easily depend upon routes and desired travel times.

]]> By: llewelly http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21150 llewelly Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:10:39 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21150 <blockquote> More fuel efficient to move people by bus. </blockquote> This is highly dependent on people distribution, destination distribution, and traffic patterns. In general general higher population density tends to favor trains over buses for people transit.

More fuel efficient to move people by bus.

This is highly dependent on people distribution, destination distribution, and traffic patterns.
In general general higher population density tends to favor trains over buses for people transit.

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21148 David B. Benson Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:02:22 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21148 TomG --- Maybe modern mass transit trains are fuel efficient, dunno. The typical problem with trains is that such are heavy compared to the light 'cargo', i.e., people. I believe buses have a higher payload ratio. This does not mean that, all factors taken into account, buses are to be preferred to trains in all situations. TomG — Maybe modern mass transit trains are fuel efficient, dunno. The typical problem with trains is that such are heavy compared to the light ‘cargo’, i.e., people. I believe buses have a higher payload ratio.

This does not mean that, all factors taken into account, buses are to be preferred to trains in all situations.

]]> By: TomG http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21146 TomG Tue, 28 Oct 2008 23:03:02 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21146 David, I don't think putting all the daily rail commuters in New York City on buses instead of electric trains would be very fuel efficient. David, I don’t think putting all the daily rail commuters in New York City on buses instead of electric trains would be very fuel efficient.

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21141 David B. Benson Tue, 28 Oct 2008 21:58:39 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21141 I commented without enough thought. Transport by water is by far the most efficient. This suggests digging transportation canals wherever feasible. Seems to me this could be a wedge or maybe two. I commented without enough thought.

Transport by water is by far the most efficient. This suggests digging transportation canals wherever feasible. Seems to me this could be a wedge or maybe two.

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21138 David B. Benson Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:32:43 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21138 Vastly more fuel efficient to move freight by train. More fuel efficient to move people by bus. Vastly more fuel efficient to move freight by train.

More fuel efficient to move people by bus.

]]> By: charlie http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21132 charlie Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:27:25 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21132 It's also funny how people get confused when they hear about more train service. It's not for transit or passengers -- hint hint. It’s also funny how people get confused when they hear about more train service. It’s not for transit or passengers — hint hint.

]]> By: paulm http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21129 paulm Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:03:40 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/10/28/china-to-invest-280b-on-30-expansion-in-rail-network-as-a-stimulus-measure/#comment-21129 Were missing the point. We should be curtailing mass transportation and start concentrating on local villages, only transporting data (information). The whole paradigm of globalization has to change. Were missing the point.

We should be curtailing mass transportation and start concentrating on local villages, only transporting data (information).

The whole paradigm of globalization has to change.

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