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	<title>Comments on: Pearlstein:  &#8220;A Detroit Bankruptcy Beats a Bailout&#8221; &#8212; but what do you think?</title>
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	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/</link>
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		<title>By: Felecia - Detroit</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-22628</link>
		<dc:creator>Felecia - Detroit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-22628</guid>
		<description>I understand the frustration with the auto manufacturers and unions.  The problem is the executives are wealthy and even if they experience a significant lifestyle change will pretty much stay wealthy for the rest of their lives no matter what is decided.  The union leaders will also be at least comfortable for some time to come.

We keep referring to jobs, when we are in fact talking about people.  If we consider that those jobs are supporting families, what happens to the children of those let go?  How do they eat.  How do we take such a large percentage of the revenue contributors of the country and turn them into service users (in the form of Medicaid, Food stamps, unemployment, etc) and still operate with the services this country, its states, counties and cities need to sustain EVERYONE?  There is a city of 67,000 that had a plant closing that had to reduce it&#039;s police force to 5 people.  It is not near another city large enough to offer support.  What will happen to Ohio, Pennsylvania, upstate New York, Wisconsin, Indiana, Illinois outside of Chicago and south eastern Michigan?  Are we expendable because a few people (who&#039;s parents and grandparents likely worked in manufacturing to educate them) find the whole process of change too slow and inconvenient?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand the frustration with the auto manufacturers and unions.  The problem is the executives are wealthy and even if they experience a significant lifestyle change will pretty much stay wealthy for the rest of their lives no matter what is decided.  The union leaders will also be at least comfortable for some time to come.</p>
<p>We keep referring to jobs, when we are in fact talking about people.  If we consider that those jobs are supporting families, what happens to the children of those let go?  How do they eat.  How do we take such a large percentage of the revenue contributors of the country and turn them into service users (in the form of Medicaid, Food stamps, unemployment, etc) and still operate with the services this country, its states, counties and cities need to sustain EVERYONE?  There is a city of 67,000 that had a plant closing that had to reduce it&#8217;s police force to 5 people.  It is not near another city large enough to offer support.  What will happen to Ohio, Pennsylvania, upstate New York, Wisconsin, Indiana, Illinois outside of Chicago and south eastern Michigan?  Are we expendable because a few people (who&#8217;s parents and grandparents likely worked in manufacturing to educate them) find the whole process of change too slow and inconvenient?</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-22022</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 05:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-22022</guid>
		<description>Many great ideas above.  Also, instead of bailing out the bungling auto companies, let&#039;s establish a TVA-style federal utility that will buy U.S.-made wind turbines, upgrade the grid, and offer clean, competitively-priced electricity with which to recharge all the plug-in hybrids.  This will provide an economic boost while also helping to presere a planet in peril!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many great ideas above.  Also, instead of bailing out the bungling auto companies, let&#8217;s establish a TVA-style federal utility that will buy U.S.-made wind turbines, upgrade the grid, and offer clean, competitively-priced electricity with which to recharge all the plug-in hybrids.  This will provide an economic boost while also helping to presere a planet in peril!</p>
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		<title>By: Donald B</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21994</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21994</guid>
		<description>This may be too harsh, particularly when good people must be retained (e.g., companies like Tesla Motors are hiring people from Detroit), but the greedy must be weeded out.

It would be nice if a &quot;claw-back&quot; could  be built in to get back ALL executive bonuses for the last 5 - 10 years and implement NO golden parachutes to the extent that their retirement benefits are reduced to whatever the lowest-paid laid-off workers get and nothing more, until they bring the company back to profitability. That should give the execs pause before they do what the Polaroid execs did before bankruptcy.

ALL future bonuses (to executives or others) should be contingent ONLY on profits from plug-in hybrid car sales.


ALL executives and board members MUST take a &quot;for credit&quot; course from Jim Hansen on Climate Warming and failing the course should make them ineligible for ANY bonuses or even raises, not to mention promotion.

Any company money spent by the company on lobbying against mileage standards or other global warming avoidance should make the CEO and CFO eligible for personal taxation at double the prevailing tax rates. Too many members of the current Supreme Court will have trouble with this due to the current idea that a corporation can be a &quot;person.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This may be too harsh, particularly when good people must be retained (e.g., companies like Tesla Motors are hiring people from Detroit), but the greedy must be weeded out.</p>
<p>It would be nice if a &#8220;claw-back&#8221; could  be built in to get back ALL executive bonuses for the last 5 &#8211; 10 years and implement NO golden parachutes to the extent that their retirement benefits are reduced to whatever the lowest-paid laid-off workers get and nothing more, until they bring the company back to profitability. That should give the execs pause before they do what the Polaroid execs did before bankruptcy.</p>
<p>ALL future bonuses (to executives or others) should be contingent ONLY on profits from plug-in hybrid car sales.</p>
<p>ALL executives and board members MUST take a &#8220;for credit&#8221; course from Jim Hansen on Climate Warming and failing the course should make them ineligible for ANY bonuses or even raises, not to mention promotion.</p>
<p>Any company money spent by the company on lobbying against mileage standards or other global warming avoidance should make the CEO and CFO eligible for personal taxation at double the prevailing tax rates. Too many members of the current Supreme Court will have trouble with this due to the current idea that a corporation can be a &#8220;person.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: red</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21961</link>
		<dc:creator>red</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21961</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m usually in favor of letting nature take its course.  Maybe that&#039;s a bad idea at the current economic moment, maybe not.

You always have to consider the external implications of bailout actions.  For example, what&#039;s the effect on future businesses?  They may see bailout as a backup plan, and take more risks than they otherwise would have.  What about the effect on solid competitor businesses?  In this case, perhaps there are none in the U.S., but there are the automotive entrepreneurs like Tesla.  How would the bailout affect them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m usually in favor of letting nature take its course.  Maybe that&#8217;s a bad idea at the current economic moment, maybe not.</p>
<p>You always have to consider the external implications of bailout actions.  For example, what&#8217;s the effect on future businesses?  They may see bailout as a backup plan, and take more risks than they otherwise would have.  What about the effect on solid competitor businesses?  In this case, perhaps there are none in the U.S., but there are the automotive entrepreneurs like Tesla.  How would the bailout affect them?</p>
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		<title>By: TomG</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21952</link>
		<dc:creator>TomG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 08:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21952</guid>
		<description>I agree with Mr Pearlstein.
Up until yesterday I thought bail-out was the way to go...but that wasn&#039;t facing reality. 
This problem needs an overhaul, not a quicko patch job.
I suppose I should mention that I&#039;m involved in this mess (I work for a logistics suppler to GM), currently laid-off and wishing things were back to normal....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Mr Pearlstein.<br />
Up until yesterday I thought bail-out was the way to go&#8230;but that wasn&#8217;t facing reality.<br />
This problem needs an overhaul, not a quicko patch job.<br />
I suppose I should mention that I&#8217;m involved in this mess (I work for a logistics suppler to GM), currently laid-off and wishing things were back to normal&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: jorleh</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21947</link>
		<dc:creator>jorleh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 06:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21947</guid>
		<description>Let them go down and begin the only green business: Greenland ice mass potential energy engineering. And Antarctic. And ships without water resistance: the rolling pontoon train ships.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let them go down and begin the only green business: Greenland ice mass potential energy engineering. And Antarctic. And ships without water resistance: the rolling pontoon train ships.</p>
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		<title>By: EricG</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21944</link>
		<dc:creator>EricG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 05:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21944</guid>
		<description>I find Pearlstein&#039;s argument compelling.  To bail these guys out, whether that means accepting their proposal or imposing one that is more severe, would support BAU and tie another anchor to this country&#039;s financial future.  As painful as this would be, it&#039;s the right thing to do.

While this would be difficult politically, Obama might look at the action taken by Ronald Reagan at the beginning of his first term.  Jimmy Carter had appointed Paul Volker Chairman of the Fed in 1979, but it was Reagan who finally gave Volker full support to raise interest rates and crush the inflation problem (13.3% in 1979, 12.5% in 1980).  The high rates caused a deep recession in 1981, but by 1984 everything was hunky dunky, and Reagan won the greatest landslide in US history.

We&#039;ll never have a better opportunity to do this right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find Pearlstein&#8217;s argument compelling.  To bail these guys out, whether that means accepting their proposal or imposing one that is more severe, would support BAU and tie another anchor to this country&#8217;s financial future.  As painful as this would be, it&#8217;s the right thing to do.</p>
<p>While this would be difficult politically, Obama might look at the action taken by Ronald Reagan at the beginning of his first term.  Jimmy Carter had appointed Paul Volker Chairman of the Fed in 1979, but it was Reagan who finally gave Volker full support to raise interest rates and crush the inflation problem (13.3% in 1979, 12.5% in 1980).  The high rates caused a deep recession in 1981, but by 1984 everything was hunky dunky, and Reagan won the greatest landslide in US history.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll never have a better opportunity to do this right.</p>
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		<title>By: paulm</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21936</link>
		<dc:creator>paulm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 02:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21936</guid>
		<description>It definitely is the opportune moment to shift all that CO2 producing resource to manufacturing sustainable energy alternatives - like wind, tide and solar generators.

What a huge turn around that would be. Climate change WWIII here we go.

The current management wont be able to cope with this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It definitely is the opportune moment to shift all that CO2 producing resource to manufacturing sustainable energy alternatives &#8211; like wind, tide and solar generators.</p>
<p>What a huge turn around that would be. Climate change WWIII here we go.</p>
<p>The current management wont be able to cope with this.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian M</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21931</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21931</guid>
		<description>I am truly tempted to let them die if they cannot compete.  However, I&#039;m not sure that now is the time to add another 74,000 people to the jobless roles (plus whatever upstream and downstream jobs would go as well).  Instead, as part of a rescue/stimulus package, perhaps the feds should provide funding but break up GM into 2 entities (or buy them, restructure them, and then sell them off .... possibly to employee owners if that is practical).

1) A smaller focused hybrid/electric/high-efficiency car company.  Something along the lines of a Saturn, but even more specialized.  Legally limit their ability to compete in any other automotive market for some period of time (a la antitrust).  Subsidize them, but require serious competitive performance as a requisite for continued subsidies.  This is a stimulus/infrastructure spend, not a free lunch.  Existing management must go.  Bring in new management from a successful auto maker (like Toyota since they have direct hybrid experience) or go with an employee-owned approach.  

2) A green infrastructure manufacturing company (windmills, grid improvements, whatever else their skill set would support).   Subsidize, as part of green infrastructure/stimulus, these workers AND the workers in Arkansas at something like $20/hr.  Yes, this is less than what the UAW make, but it&#039;s substantially better than being unemployed in a recession.

Yes, this is massive government intervention, but, if you want the taxpayers&#039; money, suck it up .... and from the government side, if you are going to spend the taxpayers&#039; money (or jack up their debt), make sure you get something valuable, meaningful, useful and tangible for it.  From now on, every &quot;bailout&quot; should be accompanied by painful, strong, nasty conditions aimed at furthering the energy/economic/environmental benefits for the American people and the world at large.  No more, &quot;here&#039;s the money.... buy stuff.&quot;

Yes, I&#039;m ignoring deficits and debt.  Isn&#039;t just about everybody?  Why buck the trend?  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am truly tempted to let them die if they cannot compete.  However, I&#8217;m not sure that now is the time to add another 74,000 people to the jobless roles (plus whatever upstream and downstream jobs would go as well).  Instead, as part of a rescue/stimulus package, perhaps the feds should provide funding but break up GM into 2 entities (or buy them, restructure them, and then sell them off &#8230;. possibly to employee owners if that is practical).</p>
<p>1) A smaller focused hybrid/electric/high-efficiency car company.  Something along the lines of a Saturn, but even more specialized.  Legally limit their ability to compete in any other automotive market for some period of time (a la antitrust).  Subsidize them, but require serious competitive performance as a requisite for continued subsidies.  This is a stimulus/infrastructure spend, not a free lunch.  Existing management must go.  Bring in new management from a successful auto maker (like Toyota since they have direct hybrid experience) or go with an employee-owned approach.  </p>
<p>2) A green infrastructure manufacturing company (windmills, grid improvements, whatever else their skill set would support).   Subsidize, as part of green infrastructure/stimulus, these workers AND the workers in Arkansas at something like $20/hr.  Yes, this is less than what the UAW make, but it&#8217;s substantially better than being unemployed in a recession.</p>
<p>Yes, this is massive government intervention, but, if you want the taxpayers&#8217; money, suck it up &#8230;. and from the government side, if you are going to spend the taxpayers&#8217; money (or jack up their debt), make sure you get something valuable, meaningful, useful and tangible for it.  From now on, every &#8220;bailout&#8221; should be accompanied by painful, strong, nasty conditions aimed at furthering the energy/economic/environmental benefits for the American people and the world at large.  No more, &#8220;here&#8217;s the money&#8230;. buy stuff.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, I&#8217;m ignoring deficits and debt.  Isn&#8217;t just about everybody?  Why buck the trend?  <img src='http://climateprogress.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Rick C</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21930</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/10/pearlstein-a-detroit-bankruptcy-beats-a-bailout-but-what-do-you-think/#comment-21930</guid>
		<description>Letting the auto companies die out of some misguided idea in that the free market determines what&#039;s best for the society is an absurd notion from a bygone era. It didn&#039;t work for Wall Street. What has failed was not the auto workers but the management that decided to crush the EV-1 and walk away from the Partnership for a New Generation of Electric Vehicles that produced a car for GM that got 80 mpg. Instead Honda and Toyota lead in sales of hybrids.

We also have to realize that it took decades to build the auto industry to where it is today. The amount of investment in factories, inventory, and human capitol would be hard if not impossible to rebuild if GM and Chrysler were allowed to die. Even the startups like Tesla are hiring these ex Detroit mechanical engineers. If these companies die, mark my words, there will be no more influence from the U.S. on how a car ought to be built to address green house gas emissions and combat peak oil. Toyota is clear on not building an extended range electric vehicle.

What ought to be done is first fire the board members at GM, including Rick Waggoner, that decided to walk away from PNVG and crushed the EV-1 and give the workers a controlling voice in how the company is managed. The management team should be selected for their total commitment to plug-in hybrid vehicles.

Tie the low interest loans to retooling the factories specifically for high mileage and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles with the emphasis on investment going specifically to plug-ins. No money may be used for executive bonuses, perks, retooling factories for yet more SUV&#039;s and monster trucks, lobbying Washington to water down stricter CAFE standards and boondoggles like hydrogen fuel cells.

Require quarterly meetings with the Congressional subcommittee on Energy to remind the auto companies that they are being held accountable for their actions and produce quarterly reports available to the public on their progress retooling their factories for plug-in hybrids and production figures and what their average fleet fuel economy ratings are.

Invest any surplus funds they have left over for making their factories more energy efficient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Letting the auto companies die out of some misguided idea in that the free market determines what&#8217;s best for the society is an absurd notion from a bygone era. It didn&#8217;t work for Wall Street. What has failed was not the auto workers but the management that decided to crush the EV-1 and walk away from the Partnership for a New Generation of Electric Vehicles that produced a car for GM that got 80 mpg. Instead Honda and Toyota lead in sales of hybrids.</p>
<p>We also have to realize that it took decades to build the auto industry to where it is today. The amount of investment in factories, inventory, and human capitol would be hard if not impossible to rebuild if GM and Chrysler were allowed to die. Even the startups like Tesla are hiring these ex Detroit mechanical engineers. If these companies die, mark my words, there will be no more influence from the U.S. on how a car ought to be built to address green house gas emissions and combat peak oil. Toyota is clear on not building an extended range electric vehicle.</p>
<p>What ought to be done is first fire the board members at GM, including Rick Waggoner, that decided to walk away from PNVG and crushed the EV-1 and give the workers a controlling voice in how the company is managed. The management team should be selected for their total commitment to plug-in hybrid vehicles.</p>
<p>Tie the low interest loans to retooling the factories specifically for high mileage and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles with the emphasis on investment going specifically to plug-ins. No money may be used for executive bonuses, perks, retooling factories for yet more SUV&#8217;s and monster trucks, lobbying Washington to water down stricter CAFE standards and boondoggles like hydrogen fuel cells.</p>
<p>Require quarterly meetings with the Congressional subcommittee on Energy to remind the auto companies that they are being held accountable for their actions and produce quarterly reports available to the public on their progress retooling their factories for plug-in hybrids and production figures and what their average fleet fuel economy ratings are.</p>
<p>Invest any surplus funds they have left over for making their factories more energy efficient.</p>
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