Comments on: Notes from the conservative stagnation, Part 10: Grover Norquist

By: Brad

Brad — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:36:36 +0000

My advice to the Republican party. (for Republican consumption only)
McCain DID lose cuz he was not conservative enough!
You need to move farther and farther to the right and purge your ranks of unpure moderates!
Anyone to the left of the John Birch Society is moderate.
Keep bashing immigrants, they are stealing your jobs. Forget their votes!
Forget young voters, they are not reliable.
Compromise, diversity, integrity…bad, bad, bad.
Keep the party pure, only white Christian dominionists are welcome.

By: Bob Wallace

Bob Wallace — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:42:15 +0000

“Conservation is conservative.”

Could be, but people interested in conservation are going to have to steal back the term conservative from the “Drill, baby, drill” wing of the Party.

Right now the prevailing attitude of conservatives in the Republican Party seems to be “If AlGore’s for it, I’m agin’ it”.

By: Wes Rolley

Wes Rolley — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:50:55 +0000

Those who wonder about a ‘good Republican’ should read Jim DiPeso at Republicans for Environmental Protection http://www.repamerica.org/ I quote from a recent talk by DiPeso “Conservation is conservative. That ought to be a central part of the Republican Party’s vision for our country. That’s Republicans for Environmental Protection’s core message”

By: David B. Benson

David B. Benson — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:48:08 +0000

Brian D — A good start of a discussion of a new, sane policy.

Something along those lines and I might even vote for a Republican or two.

Might, I siad.

By: Brian D

Brian D — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:37:56 +0000

Apologies for the off-topic, but I figure I should raise this here.

It’s no secret I’m not a conservative, but as I live in Canada’s clone of Texas, I’m constantly surrounded by them. Which is why I found this Slate piece on a ‘green Republican’ viewpoint so interesting. It separates green actions from their traditionally environmentalist leanings and rephrases them in terms the GOP would understand.

It is, however, obviously aimed at an American audience, and the author thanks folk from both Heritage and Cato (which immediately calls to question hidden agendas). The question I ask is: From your more experienced eyes, how plausible is this suggestion? Setting aside that the current Repubs are in a Death Spiral Tantrum as noted above, that is.

By: Bob Wallace

Bob Wallace — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:36:45 +0000

Interestingly “market mechanisms” are likely going to save our sorry butts.

It’s going to be cheaper to conserve than to consume. The market is going to put additional value on goods and services that use less energy.

It’s going to be cheaper to get our power from renewables than from sequestered carbon. Especially if carbon generation is required to include all the ancillary costs that they now duck.

It’s going to be cheaper to drive electric/mostly electric cars than ones that use imported and increasingly expensive to extract petroleum.

Right now the market is not working well. It’s not free enough, but “stuck” due to vested economic interests. Governments may have to kick things along a bit as we’re up against some serious time constraints.

So let’s stick in some temporary carbon taxes or caps and spend some up front money to get the move to new energy sources and efficient transportation accelerated.

Those “Market fundamentalists” should get behind those ideas. Too bad they’re caught up in a “If your side wins, my side looses” mentality.

The deniers? Screw ‘em. They’re just a too tiny minority to get our attention. Down to ~10% in the US these days and falling.

The trend for a long time is for the more moderates on their side to move to acceptance, people just aren’t joining their team….

By: Mulga Mumblebrain

Mulga Mumblebrain — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:54:49 +0000

The situation is somewhat analogous in Australia. The Rightwing media, the only type we have here,centred on Rupert Murdoch’s local flagship The Australian (aka The Fundament)a sort of Antipodean FoxNews, is ferociously denialist. The lumpen denialists bitterly resent that their claims to be ’sceptics’ are treated with deserved derision, while they abuse climatologists as ‘alarmists’. As the scientific consensus hardens, our local denialists actually become more hysterical. It is no longer a matter of disagreement over science. The denialists decry the science as all lies, assert, insinuation having been left far behind, that anthropogenic climate change is all a conspiracy, of anti-capitalists, if not socialists and, shock, horror, Communists. Naturally the centre of the denialist circus is to be found in extreme Rightwing ideology, particularly Market Fundamentalist economists. Their pseudo-science, a true religion with True Believers impervious to reason if ever there was one, simply cannot encompass any reality that cannot be addressed by ‘market mechanisms’. Even as, or perhaps because of, their economic dream-world collapses around us, their ideological fervour grows the greater. The roots of this mania lie in some species of psychopathology, I am sure.

By: Bob Wallace

Bob Wallace — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:20:12 +0000

Well, David, you illustrate the problem that the Republican Party has. The fundie/creationist/denier/hater wing vs. the more moderate wing.

And, like you say, if the Party goes right to denier-land, some of you will vote Democratic. And, obviously, if the Party goes left-center, others will bolt or refuse to vote.

By: David Morton

David Morton — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:14:35 +0000

While the prevailing thread of the current Republican platform is slanted towards climate change denial, there is a pretty noticeable movement of Conservatives who not only accept climate change as a reality, but are actively trying to confront the problem. Some of us see the situation as being so dire that we’re willing to embrace various forms of carbon taxation — a huge step for any free market advocate.

I can assure you that Grover Norquist doesn’t speak for the entire movement of conservative thought. And if the party leadership refuses to step up to the plate on this issue and others, we’ll continue to vote for Democratic leaders who will.

By: Wes Rolley

Wes Rolley — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:57:08 +0000

The only proper setting for Grover Norquist is to join his one time room mate, Jack Abramoff. However, that isn’t going to happen and neither will sense descend on the Republican Party this year. Case in point was the re-designation of John ~~Bonehead~~ Boehner as House Minority Leader.

Actually, their hope for a resurgence has to be rooted in a belief that the Bush Recession is so deep and the way out so long that Obama will be viewed as a failure. Economic issues are where they will succeed or fail.