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	<title>Comments on: An open letter to James Hansen on the real truth about stabilizing at 350 ppm</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:55:19 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Steve Beers</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-33326</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Beers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-33326</guid>
		<description>To me, the most straightforward way to promptly act is a ban on all new coal plants without sequestration or verified permanent offsets.  

This one rule accomplishes the following:

1. best kind of &#039;cap&#039; on new coal plant emissions - ZERO.
2. allowing sequestration or offsets as safety valve sounds less drastic than a total ban on new coal plants.  Yet it&#039;s still a drastic enough action to match the dire circumstances.
3. prices &#039;externalities&#039; by raising the average cost of electricity.  Without a direct ban on coal, it still steers the market away from using more coal.
4.  marginal costs for new plants can be averaged in with costs for existing power - for a gradual impact to consumers
5. no direct price increases as with a carbon tax.  therefore politically easier to advocate
6. stimulates the market for renewables and efficiency, both indirectly with the price increases for coal-fired electricity, and directly with offsets.
7. a relatively simple measure, both to advocate for and to administer.
8. sets stage for further improvements - &quot;new coal&quot; with sequestration becomes a demonstration for what&#039;s technically feasible
9. utilities using new coal become a possible ally to clean up &quot;old coal&quot; of its carbon b/c they are competing for market share.
10.  if sequestration isn&#039;t ready yet, many offsets (efficiency, reforestation, some renewables) are

another, not related, point:

why is variability of supply supposedly such a killer for solar and wind options?  

The usually posed alternatives of &quot;baseload&quot; coal and nuke have to cope with variable demand by using natural gas peaking plants.  so, variable supply sources like wind and solar will likewise have to use gas as backup and gap-filler.  Whichever way you go, gas is the likely gap filler until or unless there are cheaper storage methods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me, the most straightforward way to promptly act is a ban on all new coal plants without sequestration or verified permanent offsets.  </p>
<p>This one rule accomplishes the following:</p>
<p>1. best kind of &#8216;cap&#8217; on new coal plant emissions &#8211; ZERO.<br />
2. allowing sequestration or offsets as safety valve sounds less drastic than a total ban on new coal plants.  Yet it&#8217;s still a drastic enough action to match the dire circumstances.<br />
3. prices &#8216;externalities&#8217; by raising the average cost of electricity.  Without a direct ban on coal, it still steers the market away from using more coal.<br />
4.  marginal costs for new plants can be averaged in with costs for existing power &#8211; for a gradual impact to consumers<br />
5. no direct price increases as with a carbon tax.  therefore politically easier to advocate<br />
6. stimulates the market for renewables and efficiency, both indirectly with the price increases for coal-fired electricity, and directly with offsets.<br />
7. a relatively simple measure, both to advocate for and to administer.<br />
8. sets stage for further improvements &#8211; &#8220;new coal&#8221; with sequestration becomes a demonstration for what&#8217;s technically feasible<br />
9. utilities using new coal become a possible ally to clean up &#8220;old coal&#8221; of its carbon b/c they are competing for market share.<br />
10.  if sequestration isn&#8217;t ready yet, many offsets (efficiency, reforestation, some renewables) are</p>
<p>another, not related, point:</p>
<p>why is variability of supply supposedly such a killer for solar and wind options?  </p>
<p>The usually posed alternatives of &#8220;baseload&#8221; coal and nuke have to cope with variable demand by using natural gas peaking plants.  so, variable supply sources like wind and solar will likewise have to use gas as backup and gap-filler.  Whichever way you go, gas is the likely gap filler until or unless there are cheaper storage methods.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Beers</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-33319</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Beers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-33319</guid>
		<description>&quot;Instead of fighting against safe and low waist [sic] nuclear power, you should back it.&quot;

Gee, didn&#039;t they make the same claims for first through third gen nukes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Instead of fighting against safe and low waist [sic] nuclear power, you should back it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Gee, didn&#8217;t they make the same claims for first through third gen nukes?</p>
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		<title>By: msn nickleri</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-26359</link>
		<dc:creator>msn nickleri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-26359</guid>
		<description>If the Iranians get a bomb and delivery systems and credibly threaten or launch on the Israelis we may get a population reduction wedge, and perhaps another wedge from sheer unavailability of oil from a big swath of current production territory. But maybe that wasn’t the kind of population control you were talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the Iranians get a bomb and delivery systems and credibly threaten or launch on the Israelis we may get a population reduction wedge, and perhaps another wedge from sheer unavailability of oil from a big swath of current production territory. But maybe that wasn’t the kind of population control you were talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: Reede Stockton</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-24584</link>
		<dc:creator>Reede Stockton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 21:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-24584</guid>
		<description>What I find most fascinating about this discussion are the options not considered.

Over the past 30-40 years we have globally moved billions from the countryside where they had more or less sustainable lives to the global urban slums where they are dependent upon fossil-fuel intensive industrial agriculture and an economy based upon globalized, transportation intensive trade.

That same sort of decision is replicated time and time again in the choices we make about economic organization.

How many wedges from re-ruralization?  How many wedges from eliminating the WTO?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find most fascinating about this discussion are the options not considered.</p>
<p>Over the past 30-40 years we have globally moved billions from the countryside where they had more or less sustainable lives to the global urban slums where they are dependent upon fossil-fuel intensive industrial agriculture and an economy based upon globalized, transportation intensive trade.</p>
<p>That same sort of decision is replicated time and time again in the choices we make about economic organization.</p>
<p>How many wedges from re-ruralization?  How many wedges from eliminating the WTO?</p>
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		<title>By: Jean sireyjol</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-24099</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean sireyjol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 15:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-24099</guid>
		<description>Of course I completly agree with Sully. Oil et 40$ a barrel is the perfect time to start a carbon tax. 
Today oil is getting too cheap versus clean energy. The carbon tax is the smart solution to ise the price of the carbon based energy and to get money available to invest in clea energy.
For french readers, read our experimental web site: 
http://taca.asso-web.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course I completly agree with Sully. Oil et 40$ a barrel is the perfect time to start a carbon tax.<br />
Today oil is getting too cheap versus clean energy. The carbon tax is the smart solution to ise the price of the carbon based energy and to get money available to invest in clea energy.<br />
For french readers, read our experimental web site:<br />
<a href="http://taca.asso-web.com/" rel="nofollow">http://taca.asso-web.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sully</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-23961</link>
		<dc:creator>Sully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 04:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-23961</guid>
		<description>Ronald,
If the Iranians get a bomb and delivery systems and credibly threaten or launch on the Israelis we may get a population reduction wedge, and perhaps another wedge from sheer unavailability of oil from a big swath of current production territory. But maybe that wasn&#039;t the kind of population control you were talking about.

Larry,
My point is that people had perforce gotten adapted to $4/gal gasoline. If we can&#039;t act to hold the effective price that high then there is no hope of acting on the kind of massive program advocated here to hold CO2 to 350 or 450 level.
I think the new administration and congress will follow your thought process, which will prove my point, so we only have a few months to wait for an answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ronald,<br />
If the Iranians get a bomb and delivery systems and credibly threaten or launch on the Israelis we may get a population reduction wedge, and perhaps another wedge from sheer unavailability of oil from a big swath of current production territory. But maybe that wasn&#8217;t the kind of population control you were talking about.</p>
<p>Larry,<br />
My point is that people had perforce gotten adapted to $4/gal gasoline. If we can&#8217;t act to hold the effective price that high then there is no hope of acting on the kind of massive program advocated here to hold CO2 to 350 or 450 level.<br />
I think the new administration and congress will follow your thought process, which will prove my point, so we only have a few months to wait for an answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald W.</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-23958</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronald W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 02:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-23958</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m new at this commenting activity, but I just spent several hours reading. I&#039;m puzzled by the absence of any comment on population control. Has this issue somehow been settled? I would expect at least one wedge from population control.

Shouldn&#039;t there be at least one wedge from carbon sequestration? Not capture from power plant stacks, which seems to me to be futile, but charring and burying fallen trees or even felling and replanting trees. There are undoubtedly ways of sequestering without charring that would keep the carbon out of the atmosphere for long periods of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m new at this commenting activity, but I just spent several hours reading. I&#8217;m puzzled by the absence of any comment on population control. Has this issue somehow been settled? I would expect at least one wedge from population control.</p>
<p>Shouldn&#8217;t there be at least one wedge from carbon sequestration? Not capture from power plant stacks, which seems to me to be futile, but charring and burying fallen trees or even felling and replanting trees. There are undoubtedly ways of sequestering without charring that would keep the carbon out of the atmosphere for long periods of time.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-23921</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-23921</guid>
		<description>@Sully, @Jean

The economy is visibly shrinking, and noone can yet see the bottom. We&#039;re about to get a look at a world in which we consume a lot less, and as one consequence, emit less C02. Let&#039;s see how we like it.

The US auto industry may be done anyway, but a significant carbon tax now would surely finish it off, and quick. I&#039;m not ready to speed its death. Now is not the time for a carbon tax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sully, @Jean</p>
<p>The economy is visibly shrinking, and noone can yet see the bottom. We&#8217;re about to get a look at a world in which we consume a lot less, and as one consequence, emit less C02. Let&#8217;s see how we like it.</p>
<p>The US auto industry may be done anyway, but a significant carbon tax now would surely finish it off, and quick. I&#8217;m not ready to speed its death. Now is not the time for a carbon tax.</p>
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		<title>By: Jean sireyjol</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-23901</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean sireyjol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 07:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-23901</guid>
		<description>Of course Sully is right. The carbon tax (with the dividend to help poor and middle income people) is the single major policy decision to take. 
Today the oil barrel is close to 40$: how do you want the people to choose low carbon solutions or products if they are é or 3 times more expensive than oil based solution or products.
We have to put a price on carbon, right now in the weterne countries that are the major CO2 polluters and the first one to cut their CO2 emissions.
Joe, please, give us an answer; if not, I will not ask Santa Claus to send me your book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course Sully is right. The carbon tax (with the dividend to help poor and middle income people) is the single major policy decision to take.<br />
Today the oil barrel is close to 40$: how do you want the people to choose low carbon solutions or products if they are é or 3 times more expensive than oil based solution or products.<br />
We have to put a price on carbon, right now in the weterne countries that are the major CO2 polluters and the first one to cut their CO2 emissions.<br />
Joe, please, give us an answer; if not, I will not ask Santa Claus to send me your book.</p>
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		<title>By: Sully</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-23897</link>
		<dc:creator>Sully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 06:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/11/23/an-open-letter-to-james-hansen-on-the-real-truth-about-stabilizing-at-350-ppm/#comment-23897</guid>
		<description>You take as a given that market or tax based solutions would not work because they would be politically infeasible. 

If those are politically infeasible I wish you good luck when you try to pass legislation to allocate WW2 levels of spending toward this project for decades.  

Why not push for something clearly doable as a first step. For instance, there is no way that consumer gasoline prices should have been allowed to drop from $4 as they have, and they should not be allowed to continue dropping. The very first thing to do is to slap on a 50 cent tax per gallon and include a proviso that the tax will grow steadily for the indefinite future so people and businesses can very clearly see the need to move toward more efficient vehicles.

If we can&#039;t politically do that we may as well all get used to the idea of warmer temperatures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You take as a given that market or tax based solutions would not work because they would be politically infeasible. </p>
<p>If those are politically infeasible I wish you good luck when you try to pass legislation to allocate WW2 levels of spending toward this project for decades.  </p>
<p>Why not push for something clearly doable as a first step. For instance, there is no way that consumer gasoline prices should have been allowed to drop from $4 as they have, and they should not be allowed to continue dropping. The very first thing to do is to slap on a 50 cent tax per gallon and include a proviso that the tax will grow steadily for the indefinite future so people and businesses can very clearly see the need to move toward more efficient vehicles.</p>
<p>If we can&#8217;t politically do that we may as well all get used to the idea of warmer temperatures.</p>
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