Comments on: If there’s no U.S. climate bill in 2009, would U.N. climate talks collapse in Copenhagen? http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:55:19 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: msn nickleri http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-26378 msn nickleri Wed, 07 Jan 2009 16:12:05 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-26378 Vangel “…but the politicians believe that they should be able to profit by pretending that man is responsible.” Correction. The scientists are telling us that man is reponsible. The politicians are doing their best to ignore it. Vangel

“…but the politicians believe that they should be able to profit by pretending that man is responsible.”

Correction. The scientists are telling us that man is reponsible. The politicians are doing their best to ignore it.

]]> By: Axil http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-25636 Axil Thu, 25 Dec 2008 04:31:35 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-25636 A carbon tax that has been proposed by Dr. James E. Hansen is best for this country and more generally the world. Cap and trade has some unintended consequences that could be very nasty. Cap and trade is applied to a selected set of big users of carbon in this country. These large coal consumers will stop using coal and the coal price will naturally fall. The Chinese will increase their buy of this cheap US coal in massive amounts which will increase world CO2 emissions and make China that much more competitive in the world market with the associated lost of US jobs and accelerated imports of cheaper Chinese goods that this cheap energy will enable. A carbon tax as advocated by Dr Hanson that is uniformly applied without exception at the point of production will produce tax revenues from coal exports to China that the Average US tax payer will receive as an energy rebate. This will keep a balance in the China/US trade and labor equation as well as motivate China to migrate electric production to nuclear electric power generation. A carbon tax that has been proposed by Dr. James E. Hansen is best for this country and more generally the world. Cap and trade has some unintended consequences that could be very nasty.

Cap and trade is applied to a selected set of big users of carbon in this country. These large coal consumers will stop using coal and the coal price will naturally fall. The Chinese will increase their buy of this cheap US coal in massive amounts which will increase world CO2 emissions and make China that much more competitive in the world market with the associated lost of US jobs and accelerated imports of cheaper Chinese goods that this cheap energy will enable.

A carbon tax as advocated by Dr Hanson that is uniformly applied without exception at the point of production will produce tax revenues from coal exports to China that the Average US tax payer will receive as an energy rebate. This will keep a balance in the China/US trade and labor equation as well as motivate China to migrate electric production to nuclear electric power generation.

]]> By: alex http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23848 alex Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:31:44 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23848 Vangel "...but the politicians believe that they should be able to profit by pretending that man is responsible." Correction. The scientists are telling us that man is reponsible. The politicians are doing their best to ignore it. Vangel

“…but the politicians believe that they should be able to profit by pretending that man is responsible.”

Correction. The scientists are telling us that man is reponsible. The politicians are doing their best to ignore it.

]]> By: Vangel http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23841 Vangel Thu, 04 Dec 2008 13:08:00 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23841 What a waste of time, energy and money. What we have is natural variation in temperature trends but the politicians believe that they should be able to profit by pretending that man is responsible. As they try to grab more power all of the corrupt individuals come bearing support hoping to cash in on the windfall that the taxpayer will be asked to provide to solve a non-existent problem. There is a recession out there and it is time for serious people to step up and tell the politicians that their corruption will no longer be tolerated by the voters. What a waste of time, energy and money. What we have is natural variation in temperature trends but the politicians believe that they should be able to profit by pretending that man is responsible. As they try to grab more power all of the corrupt individuals come bearing support hoping to cash in on the windfall that the taxpayer will be asked to provide to solve a non-existent problem. There is a recession out there and it is time for serious people to step up and tell the politicians that their corruption will no longer be tolerated by the voters.

]]> By: JAY http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23829 JAY Thu, 04 Dec 2008 04:15:55 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23829 The earth isn't warming. Nobody will support these silly proposals once the costs are exposed. The earth isn’t warming. Nobody will support these silly proposals once the costs are exposed.

]]> By: Steve Bloom http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23821 Steve Bloom Thu, 04 Dec 2008 00:57:34 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23821 "frenemiesofscience.org" *snork* Good one (for real). Actually for that crowd it should be more like friendsoftarsands.biz. “frenemiesofscience.org” *snork* Good one (for real). Actually for that crowd it should be more like friendsoftarsands.biz.

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23815 David B. Benson Wed, 03 Dec 2008 23:47:37 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23815 glenncz --- I fear you have been fooled. jae --- You certainly have. glenncz — I fear you have been fooled.

jae — You certainly have.

]]> By: alex http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23813 alex Wed, 03 Dec 2008 23:26:14 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23813 Joe I am a regular reader of this blog but that doesn't mean I agree with you on the politics. I feel there is a desperate paucity of ambition at every level, but particularly within the political structure of the US. If your federal system is getting in the way of action then do it at the state level - this is what we are effectively doing in Europe; the UK has ambitious CO2 reduction goals, is showing every sign of achieving them and is not trying to hide behind Brussels as an excuse for failing. Crustacean If you are from the "stick your head out of the window" school of climate science then I would agree that recent weather has been cool. However, the long term trends unmistakenly support AGW and the evidence of polar ice retreat, melting glaciers and permafrost is beyond doubt. Global CO2 trends are worsening year on year and, looked at objectively, the picture is bleak. Anyone who dismisses or trivialises the issue is being very short sighted. Joe

I am a regular reader of this blog but that doesn’t mean I agree with you on the politics. I feel there is a desperate paucity of ambition at every level, but particularly within the political structure of the US. If your federal system is getting in the way of action then do it at the state level – this is what we are effectively doing in Europe; the UK has ambitious CO2 reduction goals, is showing every sign of achieving them and is not trying to hide behind Brussels as an excuse for failing.

Crustacean

If you are from the “stick your head out of the window” school of climate science then I would agree that recent weather has been cool. However, the long term trends unmistakenly support AGW and the evidence of polar ice retreat, melting glaciers and permafrost is beyond doubt. Global CO2 trends are worsening year on year and, looked at objectively, the picture is bleak. Anyone who dismisses or trivialises the issue is being very short sighted.

]]> By: Professor_D http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23809 Professor_D Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:24:31 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23809 Right on, Ms. Cross!!! Right on, Ms. Cross!!!

]]> By: Crustacean http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23805 Crustacean Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:33:27 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/02/would-no-us-climate-bill-in-2009-mean-a-collapse-in-un-talks/#comment-23805 Alex-- "the [UK] population at large is as antagonistic / apathetic towards action as the US population but it is being pushed through anyway." Well... Thanks ever so much for shedding this light on the desperate rush to enact authoritarian economic schemes before too many people catch on to the fact that the planet has been cooling for a decade, that there's NO correlation with CO2 anyway, and that none of this really has much to do with climate, except as a brilliantly contrived--and now rapidly fading--excuse. Alex–

“the [UK] population at large is as antagonistic / apathetic towards action as the US population but it is being pushed through anyway.”

Well… Thanks ever so much for shedding this light on the desperate rush to enact authoritarian economic schemes before too many people catch on to the fact that the planet has been cooling for a decade, that there’s NO correlation with CO2 anyway, and that none of this really has much to do with climate, except as a brilliantly contrived–and now rapidly fading–excuse.

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