Comments on: How would you spend $50 billion to stimulate the economy AND energy efficiency, Part 1 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/ The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:16:08 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Tom Walker http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-26163 Tom Walker Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:49:55 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-26163 Oh, and as for spending that $50 billion? Easy. Set up leisure income accounts that people in the workforce can draw on for vacation or days off provided they work fewer than, say, 1600 hours per year. The stupid is that we "need" to consume a lot of stuff we don't really need so that we can "create jobs". Clue: we can "create jobs" without making more useless and even harmful stuff. Oh, and as for spending that $50 billion? Easy. Set up leisure income accounts that people in the workforce can draw on for vacation or days off provided they work fewer than, say, 1600 hours per year. The stupid is that we “need” to consume a lot of stuff we don’t really need so that we can “create jobs”. Clue: we can “create jobs” without making more useless and even harmful stuff.

]]> By: Tom Walker http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-26162 Tom Walker Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:42:47 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-26162 Lot's of techno-fix ideas here. Apparently no one has heard of Jevons or his paradox. Greater efficiency leads to <i>higher</I> total consumption (because of lower cost stimulating demand). The hard core is that energy efficiency, by itself, won't cut it. You've got to address the fetish of economic growth. Yes, it's a fetish. It started out as an "idea" but it became a fetish when economists decided that questioning the idea of economic growth was taboo. Furthermore, stopping growth won't cut it either. There's got to be a plan for low to no growth that without increasing poverty or unemployment. There is a way. Cut the work week. Cut consumption of industrial goods, thus reducing throughput but increase consumption of "sociability goods" with more free time to organize sharing and caring. Read Peter Victor's Managing Without Growth to see how it's possible. [<em>JR: Everyone's heard of Jevons -- most people don't believe his theory since it doesn't jibe with the extensive literature on rebound rates, which are probably 10% or less in the real world. In any case, no one on this blog ever said efficiency is the only solution, just the biggest and cheapest.</em>] Lot’s of techno-fix ideas here. Apparently no one has heard of Jevons or his paradox. Greater efficiency leads to higher total consumption (because of lower cost stimulating demand).

The hard core is that energy efficiency, by itself, won’t cut it. You’ve got to address the fetish of economic growth. Yes, it’s a fetish. It started out as an “idea” but it became a fetish when economists decided that questioning the idea of economic growth was taboo. Furthermore, stopping growth won’t cut it either. There’s got to be a plan for low to no growth that without increasing poverty or unemployment. There is a way. Cut the work week. Cut consumption of industrial goods, thus reducing throughput but increase consumption of “sociability goods” with more free time to organize sharing and caring. Read Peter Victor’s Managing Without Growth to see how it’s possible.

[JR: Everyone's heard of Jevons -- most people don't believe his theory since it doesn't jibe with the extensive literature on rebound rates, which are probably 10% or less in the real world. In any case, no one on this blog ever said efficiency is the only solution, just the biggest and cheapest.]

]]> By: endependence http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-24489 endependence Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:16:48 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-24489 Pass federal legislation that eliminates the concept of pass through leases to remove the Principal/Agent problem in commercial buildings. Require the installation of energy efficient water heating systems, either solar hot water or tankless hot water or a combination of both on all commercial buildings. Require states with no energy efficiency/GHG reduction legislation to pass such legislation in order to be eligible for green stimulus funds. Here is a view of the states that do not have a program. http://www.pewclimate.org/what_s_being_done/in_the_states/action_plan_map.cfm Pass federal legislation that eliminates the concept of pass through leases to remove the Principal/Agent problem in commercial buildings.

Require the installation of energy efficient water heating systems, either solar hot water or tankless hot water or a combination of both on all commercial buildings.

Require states with no energy efficiency/GHG reduction legislation to pass such legislation in order to be eligible for green stimulus funds.

Here is a view of the states that do not have a program.

http://www.pewclimate.org/ what_s_being_done/ in_the_states/ action_plan_map.cfm

]]> By: Estetik http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-24202 Estetik Tue, 09 Dec 2008 14:47:09 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-24202 Will you support imposition of a fair and gradually rising price on carbon emissions, so as to encourage a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, with the price determined by apolitical authority based on combined economic and environmental considerations? Will you support imposition of a fair and gradually rising price on carbon emissions, so as to encourage a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, with the price determined by apolitical authority based on combined economic and environmental considerations?

]]> By: Ken Hughes http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-24128 Ken Hughes Mon, 08 Dec 2008 21:38:04 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-24128 I suggest a liquid fuel free set of mobility options: new trolleys connecting with commuter trains; docking stations at train stations and other high density spots for shared bikes, electric bikes, and electric mini cars; parking lots decked with solar PV panels that feed solar electrons into electric cars and back into the grid as needed; transit villages featuring the best of what we prize in communities, with a 21st century set of technologies making them carbon negative; and employer-issued cards to either open up the gate of the typical free parking lot or to pay for transit or to pay for shared bike/electric car or to invest in community supported solar. I suggest a liquid fuel free set of mobility options: new trolleys connecting with commuter trains; docking stations at train stations and other high density spots for shared bikes, electric bikes, and electric mini cars; parking lots decked with solar PV panels that feed solar electrons into electric cars and back into the grid as needed; transit villages featuring the best of what we prize in communities, with a 21st century set of technologies making them carbon negative; and employer-issued cards to either open up the gate of the typical free parking lot or to pay for transit or to pay for shared bike/electric car or to invest in community supported solar.

]]> By: Leni Berliner http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-24051 Leni Berliner Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:10:48 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-24051 There are many good ideas. What we lack is a way to make those ideas a reality. I propose the establishment of a mixed-ownership National Infrastructure Bank that will underwrite debt and equity investment in all kinds of renewable and "smart" energy generation and transmission projects. Stay tuned. There are many good ideas. What we lack is a way to make those ideas a reality. I propose the establishment of a mixed-ownership National Infrastructure Bank that will underwrite debt and equity investment in all kinds of renewable and “smart” energy generation and transmission projects. Stay tuned.

]]> By: David B. Benson http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-24026 David B. Benson Sat, 06 Dec 2008 21:17:30 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-24026 Solar hot water heaters work even in the Seattle area. No need to restrict use of these to the South. Solar hot water heaters work even in the Seattle area. No need to restrict use of these to the South.

]]> By: Danny http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-24023 Danny Sat, 06 Dec 2008 20:46:15 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-24023 Require public buildings to incorporate occupancy sensors to determine electric light usage. Require public buildings to incorporate occupancy sensors to determine electric light usage.

]]> By: Danny http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-24022 Danny Sat, 06 Dec 2008 20:37:16 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-24022 Require new construction to incorporate solar water heating systems, at least in the southern states. Gradually extend this to require all apartment buildings to do the same, and from there to all private homes. Solar water heating is ubiquitous in Israel, being required by law on construction since the 1970s. While it will not solve the problem, the large-scale adoption of solar water heating in such populous states as California, Florida, and Texas, with a total of 78 million people (and growing fast), can make a significant dent in energy consumption. Require new construction to incorporate solar water heating systems, at least in the southern states. Gradually extend this to require all apartment buildings to do the same, and from there to all private homes. Solar water heating is ubiquitous in Israel, being required by law on construction since the 1970s. While it will not solve the problem, the large-scale adoption of solar water heating in such populous states as California, Florida, and Texas, with a total of 78 million people (and growing fast), can make a significant dent in energy consumption.

]]> By: Peter Wood http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-23970 Peter Wood Sat, 06 Dec 2008 14:15:39 +0000 http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/04/how-would-you-spend-50-billion-to-stimulate-the-economy-and-energy-efficiency-part-1/#comment-23970 No more open door refrigerators or open door freezers in supermarkets. No more open door refrigerators or open door freezers in supermarkets.

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