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	<title>Comments on: Does the &#8220;Reality Campaign&#8221; need new Mad Men?</title>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-26262</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 16:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-26262</guid>
		<description>ok, late to this convo, but one man&#039;s take on it, for what it&#039;s worth...

One way to think about these ads might be to understand that first and foremost most people don&#039;t react well to being lectured to and don&#039;t react well to outrage.  A more effective approach is to let people come to their own conclusion which I think these ads are trying to accomplish.  Here&#039;s my take on Joe&#039;s questions:

- I assume most people (including many policymakers) don&#039;t really understand climate or electricity and coal&#039;s role in both.  Most folks would also like there to be an easy answer to a big problem like climate change.  Given this, most people (including policymakers) are particularly susceptible to the clean coal message:  we already rely on it, it&#039;s clean and getting cleaner every day.  It&#039;s the same &quot;go back to sleep, we&#039;ll take care of it&quot; message that most of the fossil fuel industry has been peddling the past two years.

-  As long as policy makers and can use the myth of clean coal with some credibility it&#039;s easier to avoid making the hard decisions that have to be made in order to solve the climate crisis.

- As I see it, the goal of these ads are not to do everything (pass legislation, etc), but mainly to help in that first and critical step of making &#039;clean coal&#039; not a credible excuse for inaction.  Once it is debranded we can have an honest conversation about the present and likely future costs of relying on dirty coal.

In terms of the images used, it may not be a literal interpretation of what is or is not clean about coal, but it&#039;s symbolic.  Given that most folks don&#039;t really understand the substance of the climate issue, it&#039;s just a way to make the issue more accessible.  I suppose they could run a campaign that talks about parts per million and SOX and NOX but I don&#039;t think anyone would really understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ok, late to this convo, but one man&#8217;s take on it, for what it&#8217;s worth&#8230;</p>
<p>One way to think about these ads might be to understand that first and foremost most people don&#8217;t react well to being lectured to and don&#8217;t react well to outrage.  A more effective approach is to let people come to their own conclusion which I think these ads are trying to accomplish.  Here&#8217;s my take on Joe&#8217;s questions:</p>
<p>- I assume most people (including many policymakers) don&#8217;t really understand climate or electricity and coal&#8217;s role in both.  Most folks would also like there to be an easy answer to a big problem like climate change.  Given this, most people (including policymakers) are particularly susceptible to the clean coal message:  we already rely on it, it&#8217;s clean and getting cleaner every day.  It&#8217;s the same &#8220;go back to sleep, we&#8217;ll take care of it&#8221; message that most of the fossil fuel industry has been peddling the past two years.</p>
<p>-  As long as policy makers and can use the myth of clean coal with some credibility it&#8217;s easier to avoid making the hard decisions that have to be made in order to solve the climate crisis.</p>
<p>- As I see it, the goal of these ads are not to do everything (pass legislation, etc), but mainly to help in that first and critical step of making &#8216;clean coal&#8217; not a credible excuse for inaction.  Once it is debranded we can have an honest conversation about the present and likely future costs of relying on dirty coal.</p>
<p>In terms of the images used, it may not be a literal interpretation of what is or is not clean about coal, but it&#8217;s symbolic.  Given that most folks don&#8217;t really understand the substance of the climate issue, it&#8217;s just a way to make the issue more accessible.  I suppose they could run a campaign that talks about parts per million and SOX and NOX but I don&#8217;t think anyone would really understand.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25657</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 15:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25657</guid>
		<description>OK, the ad is bad. 


You&#039;ve got a video camera and computer and youtube.   make yours and do better than the Reality people did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, the ad is bad. </p>
<p>You&#8217;ve got a video camera and computer and youtube.   make yours and do better than the Reality people did.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Pauli</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25630</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Pauli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 01:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25630</guid>
		<description>Notice the current  Quit Smoking TV ad campaign.. sponsored by Pfizer -  selling their quit smoking medicine.  Personal testimonies about how difficult it is to quit. 

But their medicine business interest are best served by more people smoking.  So when I see closeup images of pleasant faces looking into the camera saying things like &quot;I admit it, I love to smoke&quot;

Well this may connect Pfizer with prospective clients, but is makes smoking an acceptable habit, and I think emotionally encourages the habit.

Easily confused humans meet diabolically deceptive influence peddlers.  Yikes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Notice the current  Quit Smoking TV ad campaign.. sponsored by Pfizer &#8211;  selling their quit smoking medicine.  Personal testimonies about how difficult it is to quit. </p>
<p>But their medicine business interest are best served by more people smoking.  So when I see closeup images of pleasant faces looking into the camera saying things like &#8220;I admit it, I love to smoke&#8221;</p>
<p>Well this may connect Pfizer with prospective clients, but is makes smoking an acceptable habit, and I think emotionally encourages the habit.</p>
<p>Easily confused humans meet diabolically deceptive influence peddlers.  Yikes!</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25614</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25614</guid>
		<description>I think we need to consider this in context.  First, isn&#039;t it possible these ads are a part of a bigger chess match, so to speak?   Perhaps eliminating anticipated use of the &quot;clean coal&quot; concept by the energy industry, not debunking something already out there? 

That said, the question remains: What public policy goal are you ultimately trying to push?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we need to consider this in context.  First, isn&#8217;t it possible these ads are a part of a bigger chess match, so to speak?   Perhaps eliminating anticipated use of the &#8220;clean coal&#8221; concept by the energy industry, not debunking something already out there? </p>
<p>That said, the question remains: What public policy goal are you ultimately trying to push?</p>
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		<title>By: Persia</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25583</link>
		<dc:creator>Persia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25583</guid>
		<description>Here from Matt Y. I&#039;m totally in agreement, the ads are crap.

&lt;em&gt;I think that the ads should mention that there isn’t a single production-scale clean coal plant in the whole world as additional proof.&lt;/em&gt;

And see, there&#039;s the flaw in these ads-- if they really wanted to take on clean coal, why not try, say, &lt;em&gt;facts?&lt;/em&gt; They could&#039;ve made a simple, point-driven, fact-based ad for probably a fraction of what this posturing drivel cost. Example:

Text and/or narration: We&#039;ve heard a lot about &#039;clean coal.&#039;

::montage of a zillion people, including McCain and Obama, talking about &#039;clean coal.&#039;::

Back to text/narration: But did you know there&#039;s not a single production-scale clean coal plant in the world? That&#039;s right. Not one. Industry experts say that the technology needed to make coal clean is probably ten to fifteen years away. We need technology that can help us &lt;em&gt;now,&lt;/em&gt; to make our rivers and streams cleaner and stop global warming. And right now...that&#039;s not clean coal.

...you get the idea anyway!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here from Matt Y. I&#8217;m totally in agreement, the ads are crap.</p>
<p><em>I think that the ads should mention that there isn’t a single production-scale clean coal plant in the whole world as additional proof.</em></p>
<p>And see, there&#8217;s the flaw in these ads&#8211; if they really wanted to take on clean coal, why not try, say, <em>facts?</em> They could&#8217;ve made a simple, point-driven, fact-based ad for probably a fraction of what this posturing drivel cost. Example:</p>
<p>Text and/or narration: We&#8217;ve heard a lot about &#8216;clean coal.&#8217;</p>
<p>::montage of a zillion people, including McCain and Obama, talking about &#8216;clean coal.&#8217;::</p>
<p>Back to text/narration: But did you know there&#8217;s not a single production-scale clean coal plant in the world? That&#8217;s right. Not one. Industry experts say that the technology needed to make coal clean is probably ten to fifteen years away. We need technology that can help us <em>now,</em> to make our rivers and streams cleaner and stop global warming. And right now&#8230;that&#8217;s not clean coal.</p>
<p>&#8230;you get the idea anyway!</p>
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		<title>By: DavidONE</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25578</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidONE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25578</guid>
		<description>I asked http://sethgodin.typepad.com/ for his take on this.  His response: 

&gt; &quot;The way I&#039;d sell the story is by pointing out the lie, the hoodwink, the scam. It&#039;s the Bernie Madoff of energy.&quot;

That works for me.  I don&#039;t think this topic is the place for satire or cutesy humour.  Counter adverts need to focus on the fact that the energy industry is lying - say that plain and clear to people and they&#039;ll remember that message next time the lie is told.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I asked <a href="http://sethgodin.typepad.com/" rel="nofollow">http://sethgodin.typepad.com/</a> for his take on this.  His response: </p>
<p>&gt; &#8220;The way I&#8217;d sell the story is by pointing out the lie, the hoodwink, the scam. It&#8217;s the Bernie Madoff of energy.&#8221;</p>
<p>That works for me.  I don&#8217;t think this topic is the place for satire or cutesy humour.  Counter adverts need to focus on the fact that the energy industry is lying &#8211; say that plain and clear to people and they&#8217;ll remember that message next time the lie is told.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan Davis</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25559</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 05:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25559</guid>
		<description>In regards to whether satire is effective advertising, I highly recommend this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71kckb8hhOQ

From my perspective it&#039;s one of the funniest, and most effective commercials I&#039;ve ever seen against &quot;clean coal.&quot;  However, this ad is certainly cynical, and carries the flavor of the middle of the Bush years, when it was hard to hope for anything.

In general, I think that such advertising is primarily effective for online communities who read a lot more, but not television.  In general, they are only good bits for preaching to choir.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In regards to whether satire is effective advertising, I highly recommend this video:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71kckb8hhOQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71kckb8hhOQ</a></p>
<p>From my perspective it&#8217;s one of the funniest, and most effective commercials I&#8217;ve ever seen against &#8220;clean coal.&#8221;  However, this ad is certainly cynical, and carries the flavor of the middle of the Bush years, when it was hard to hope for anything.</p>
<p>In general, I think that such advertising is primarily effective for online communities who read a lot more, but not television.  In general, they are only good bits for preaching to choir.</p>
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		<title>By: Asteroid Miner</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25553</link>
		<dc:creator>Asteroid Miner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 02:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25553</guid>
		<description>Coal is mostly carbon, but the complete list of impurities in coal includes almost every element in the periodic table.     The major impurities are, depending on where you found it are: URANIUM, ARSENIC, LEAD, MERCURY, Antimony, Cobalt, Nickel, Copper, Selenium, Barium, Fluorine, Silver, Beryllium, Iron, Sulfur, Boron, Titanium, Cadmium, Magnesium, Calcium, Manganese, Vanadium, Chlorine, Aluminum, Chromium, Molybdenum and Zinc.   Coal smoke and cinders are commercially viable ORE for the above elements.   Chinese industrial grade coal contains much more arsenic than American coal.  Chinese industrial grade coal is sometimes stolen by peasants for cooking.   The result is that the whole family dies of arsenic poisoning.   Coal varies a lot.   You have to analyze it not only mine by mine but even lump by lump.   Coal is a rock.   It comes out of the ground.   What would you expect of a rock?   Coal also contains organics.   When they dump overburden, it inevitably contains &quot;stony coal,&quot; by which I mean a combination of ordinary rock and coal.
Reference: 
OUR NUCLEAR FUTURE: 
THE PATH OF SELECTIVE IGNORANCE 
by Alex Gabbard 
Oak Ridge National Laboratory 
Oak Ridge, TN 
Selections from the 19th Annual Conference 
SOUTHERN FUTURE SOCIETY 
March 14,15,16, 1996 
Nashville, Tennessee 

Published by the 
SOUTHERN FUTURE SOCIETY 
1996 
Edited by Jack D. Arters, Ed.D. 
Conference Director
The truth is, all natural rocks contain most natural elements.   Coal is a rock.   
The average concentration of uranium in coal is 1 or 2 parts per million.   Illinois 
coal contains up to 103 parts per million uranium.   A 1000 million watt coal 
fired power plant burns 4 million tons of coal each year.   If you multiply 4 
million tons by 1 part per million, you get 4 tons of uranium.   Most of that is 
U238.   About .7% is U235.   4 tons = 8000 pounds.   8000 pounds times .7% = 
56 pounds of U235.   An average 1000 million watt coal fired power plant puts 
out 56 to 112 pounds of U235 every year.   There are only 2 places the uranium 
can go: Up the stack or into the cinders.  

&quot;Modern electrostatic precipitator plants are capable of operating at greater than 99.5% collection efficiency but can still release 35 lb/year of uranium as just one component in almost 3 million tons of ash vented through stacks. In addition to this radiological species, all the radon in coal is released during combustion. An estimate for average Rn-222 release is about 2 Curies/year for each 1000 MWe coal fired facility15.&quot;

Since a reactor full fuel load is around 11 tons of 2% U235 and 98% U238, and one load lasts about 10 years, and what one coal fired power plant puts into the air and cinders fully fuels a nuclear power plant.
Compare 4 Million tons per year with 1.1 tons per year.   1.1 divided by 4 Million = 2.75 E -7 = .000000275 =.0000275%.   Remember that only 2% of that is U235.   The nuclear power plant needs ~44 pounds of U235 per year.   The coal fired power plant burns coal by the trainload.   The nuclear power plant consumes U235 in such small quantities yearly that you could carry that much weight in a briefcase.   The full fuel load and the years between fueling varies from reactor to reactor, but one truck can carry the weight of a full nuclear fuel load.See also:   http://www.ornl.gov/ORNLReview/rev26-34/text/coalmain.html
and
http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev26-34/text/colside1.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coal is mostly carbon, but the complete list of impurities in coal includes almost every element in the periodic table.     The major impurities are, depending on where you found it are: URANIUM, ARSENIC, LEAD, MERCURY, Antimony, Cobalt, Nickel, Copper, Selenium, Barium, Fluorine, Silver, Beryllium, Iron, Sulfur, Boron, Titanium, Cadmium, Magnesium, Calcium, Manganese, Vanadium, Chlorine, Aluminum, Chromium, Molybdenum and Zinc.   Coal smoke and cinders are commercially viable ORE for the above elements.   Chinese industrial grade coal contains much more arsenic than American coal.  Chinese industrial grade coal is sometimes stolen by peasants for cooking.   The result is that the whole family dies of arsenic poisoning.   Coal varies a lot.   You have to analyze it not only mine by mine but even lump by lump.   Coal is a rock.   It comes out of the ground.   What would you expect of a rock?   Coal also contains organics.   When they dump overburden, it inevitably contains &#8220;stony coal,&#8221; by which I mean a combination of ordinary rock and coal.<br />
Reference:<br />
OUR NUCLEAR FUTURE:<br />
THE PATH OF SELECTIVE IGNORANCE<br />
by Alex Gabbard<br />
Oak Ridge National Laboratory<br />
Oak Ridge, TN<br />
Selections from the 19th Annual Conference<br />
SOUTHERN FUTURE SOCIETY<br />
March 14,15,16, 1996<br />
Nashville, Tennessee </p>
<p>Published by the<br />
SOUTHERN FUTURE SOCIETY<br />
1996<br />
Edited by Jack D. Arters, Ed.D.<br />
Conference Director<br />
The truth is, all natural rocks contain most natural elements.   Coal is a rock.<br />
The average concentration of uranium in coal is 1 or 2 parts per million.   Illinois<br />
coal contains up to 103 parts per million uranium.   A 1000 million watt coal<br />
fired power plant burns 4 million tons of coal each year.   If you multiply 4<br />
million tons by 1 part per million, you get 4 tons of uranium.   Most of that is<br />
U238.   About .7% is U235.   4 tons = 8000 pounds.   8000 pounds times .7% =<br />
56 pounds of U235.   An average 1000 million watt coal fired power plant puts<br />
out 56 to 112 pounds of U235 every year.   There are only 2 places the uranium<br />
can go: Up the stack or into the cinders.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Modern electrostatic precipitator plants are capable of operating at greater than 99.5% collection efficiency but can still release 35 lb/year of uranium as just one component in almost 3 million tons of ash vented through stacks. In addition to this radiological species, all the radon in coal is released during combustion. An estimate for average Rn-222 release is about 2 Curies/year for each 1000 MWe coal fired facility15.&#8221;</p>
<p>Since a reactor full fuel load is around 11 tons of 2% U235 and 98% U238, and one load lasts about 10 years, and what one coal fired power plant puts into the air and cinders fully fuels a nuclear power plant.<br />
Compare 4 Million tons per year with 1.1 tons per year.   1.1 divided by 4 Million = 2.75 E -7 = .000000275 =.0000275%.   Remember that only 2% of that is U235.   The nuclear power plant needs ~44 pounds of U235 per year.   The coal fired power plant burns coal by the trainload.   The nuclear power plant consumes U235 in such small quantities yearly that you could carry that much weight in a briefcase.   The full fuel load and the years between fueling varies from reactor to reactor, but one truck can carry the weight of a full nuclear fuel load.See also:   <a href="http://www.ornl.gov/ORNLReview/rev26-34/text/coalmain.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ornl.gov/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>ORNLReview/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>rev26-34/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>text/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>coalmain.html</a><br />
and<br />
<a href="http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev26-34/text/colside1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ornl.gov/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>info/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>ornlreview/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>rev26-34/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>text/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>colside1.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Asteroid Miner</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25552</link>
		<dc:creator>Asteroid Miner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 02:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25552</guid>
		<description>I know that they are not serious because they have not said:  &quot;Coal contains uranium, thorium, arsenic, lead,......&quot;   What are they really trying to do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that they are not serious because they have not said:  &#8220;Coal contains uranium, thorium, arsenic, lead,&#8230;&#8230;&#8221;   What are they really trying to do?</p>
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		<title>By: dean</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25543</link>
		<dc:creator>dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 23:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/23/does-the-reality-campaign-need-new-mad-men/#comment-25543</guid>
		<description>While I think that many of your criticisms are valid, I think you overstate the case. As somebody strongly committed to the same issue, it&#039;s only a few months ago that I learned how much of a myth clean coal is. But I had heard of clean coal for years. I just assumed that there probably were a few of them - somewhere. I think that the ads should mention that there isn&#039;t a single production-scale clean coal plant in the whole world as additional proof. Nonetheless, given how much momentum the coal folks have on this, I doubt these commercials are counter-productive, even if they could be better.

And i see that coal is responding with a campaign speech by Obama. So maybe we need to get rid of the electoral college. Without it, coal-mining states wouldn&#039;t be swing states and have so much influence on campaigns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I think that many of your criticisms are valid, I think you overstate the case. As somebody strongly committed to the same issue, it&#8217;s only a few months ago that I learned how much of a myth clean coal is. But I had heard of clean coal for years. I just assumed that there probably were a few of them &#8211; somewhere. I think that the ads should mention that there isn&#8217;t a single production-scale clean coal plant in the whole world as additional proof. Nonetheless, given how much momentum the coal folks have on this, I doubt these commercials are counter-productive, even if they could be better.</p>
<p>And i see that coal is responding with a campaign speech by Obama. So maybe we need to get rid of the electoral college. Without it, coal-mining states wouldn&#8217;t be swing states and have so much influence on campaigns.</p>
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