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	<title>Comments on: Stimulating the economy with green buildings</title>
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	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/27/architecture-2030-stimulus-green-buildings/</link>
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		<title>By: Daniel Bergey</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/27/architecture-2030-stimulus-green-buildings/#comment-25874</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Bergey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 04:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;d add that the payoffs for building energy measures are quite short.  5--6 years for 30% below code, 10--12 for 50%, maybe 45 for PV systems.   (OK, probably a bit longer for renovations.)  In other words, the energy savings covers the cost of the loan and then some.  So yes, I&#039;d expect lots of people to go in for loans that reduce their monthly cost of housing.

You wouldn&#039;t think it would be hard to talk people into an investment with 10--20% rate of return, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d add that the payoffs for building energy measures are quite short.  5&#8211;6 years for 30% below code, 10&#8211;12 for 50%, maybe 45 for PV systems.   (OK, probably a bit longer for renovations.)  In other words, the energy savings covers the cost of the loan and then some.  So yes, I&#8217;d expect lots of people to go in for loans that reduce their monthly cost of housing.</p>
<p>You wouldn&#8217;t think it would be hard to talk people into an investment with 10&#8211;20% rate of return, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Dano</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/27/architecture-2030-stimulus-green-buildings/#comment-25769</link>
		<dc:creator>Dano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 23:54:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My specialty is everything to the left of the building envelope (green infra). More efficient is showing evergreen trees on the north side of the building, blocking cold north winds that suck heat out of buildings in the winter. 

Nonetheless, nice post.

Best,

D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My specialty is everything to the left of the building envelope (green infra). More efficient is showing evergreen trees on the north side of the building, blocking cold north winds that suck heat out of buildings in the winter. </p>
<p>Nonetheless, nice post.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>D</p>
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		<title>By: hapa</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/27/architecture-2030-stimulus-green-buildings/#comment-25753</link>
		<dc:creator>hapa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/27/architecture-2030-stimulus-green-buildings/#comment-25753</guid>
		<description>*correction: i wrote &quot;people near foreclosure are not creditworthy&quot; when i meant to write

&lt;b&gt;PEOPLE NEAR FORECLOSURE ARE NOT CREDITWORTHY&lt;/b&gt;

in giant red block lettering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*correction: i wrote &#8220;people near foreclosure are not creditworthy&#8221; when i meant to write</p>
<p><b>PEOPLE NEAR FORECLOSURE ARE NOT CREDITWORTHY</b></p>
<p>in giant red block lettering.</p>
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		<title>By: red</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/27/architecture-2030-stimulus-green-buildings/#comment-25752</link>
		<dc:creator>red</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 18:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/27/architecture-2030-stimulus-green-buildings/#comment-25752</guid>
		<description>&quot;Energy efficiency 30 percent below code, 4.5% interest rate&quot;

The proposal might need to be a bit more nuanced in actual implementation than what the transition brief seems to be saying (I could be misinterpreting it of course; feel free to correct my interpretation).  

It seems like a building that&#039;s, say, 29% below code would get the same interest rate as a building that&#039;s, say, 50% above code if it reaches 30% below code.  While I wouldn&#039;t exactly want to reward an owner for starting with a really inefficient house, I&#039;d think the energy efficiency gain from 
-29% to -30% shouldn&#039;t deserve a mortgage bailout.  Some sort of scaling might be in order.

Similarly, it seems like an existing mortgage of, say, 15% interest rate would get the same bailout rate of 4.5% (in the 30% below code scenario) as an existing mortgage interest rate of 4.6%.  Maybe the form of bailout should be in % reduction from the existing mortgage rate rather than an absolute rate.

I&#039;m curious how the auditing of home energy efficiency percentages would work.  This seems like it could be a big overhead sort of expense.

I&#039;d be a lot more interested in some sort of improved rebate for deploying home energy efficiency, simply because I don&#039;t like being in debt so loan help isn&#039;t attractive.  I suspect there are a lot of people out there with a similar attitude, and they probably tend to be in a good position to fund energy efficiency upgrades if the incentives are put in place to make them want to do so.  I understand the desire to target the at-risk mortgages right now, but I wouldn&#039;t overlook this other route.

I also wouldn&#039;t overlook the other big elephant in the economic and energy efficiency room besides housing - the automobile sector.  Similar to still-expensive houses, with all of the bailout news, I&#039;m surprised how much money the U.S auto dealers are still asking for fuel-efficient cars, if so many are just sitting on lots rusting.  Maybe a loan approach similar to the one described here for housing (and/or massive rebates to attract loan-averse people) would work for fuel-efficient cars (perhaps only if built in the U.S. and/or made by U.S. companies)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Energy efficiency 30 percent below code, 4.5% interest rate&#8221;</p>
<p>The proposal might need to be a bit more nuanced in actual implementation than what the transition brief seems to be saying (I could be misinterpreting it of course; feel free to correct my interpretation).  </p>
<p>It seems like a building that&#8217;s, say, 29% below code would get the same interest rate as a building that&#8217;s, say, 50% above code if it reaches 30% below code.  While I wouldn&#8217;t exactly want to reward an owner for starting with a really inefficient house, I&#8217;d think the energy efficiency gain from<br />
-29% to -30% shouldn&#8217;t deserve a mortgage bailout.  Some sort of scaling might be in order.</p>
<p>Similarly, it seems like an existing mortgage of, say, 15% interest rate would get the same bailout rate of 4.5% (in the 30% below code scenario) as an existing mortgage interest rate of 4.6%.  Maybe the form of bailout should be in % reduction from the existing mortgage rate rather than an absolute rate.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious how the auditing of home energy efficiency percentages would work.  This seems like it could be a big overhead sort of expense.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be a lot more interested in some sort of improved rebate for deploying home energy efficiency, simply because I don&#8217;t like being in debt so loan help isn&#8217;t attractive.  I suspect there are a lot of people out there with a similar attitude, and they probably tend to be in a good position to fund energy efficiency upgrades if the incentives are put in place to make them want to do so.  I understand the desire to target the at-risk mortgages right now, but I wouldn&#8217;t overlook this other route.</p>
<p>I also wouldn&#8217;t overlook the other big elephant in the economic and energy efficiency room besides housing &#8211; the automobile sector.  Similar to still-expensive houses, with all of the bailout news, I&#8217;m surprised how much money the U.S auto dealers are still asking for fuel-efficient cars, if so many are just sitting on lots rusting.  Maybe a loan approach similar to the one described here for housing (and/or massive rebates to attract loan-averse people) would work for fuel-efficient cars (perhaps only if built in the U.S. and/or made by U.S. companies)?</p>
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		<title>By: hapa</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/27/architecture-2030-stimulus-green-buildings/#comment-25751</link>
		<dc:creator>hapa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 18:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/27/architecture-2030-stimulus-green-buildings/#comment-25751</guid>
		<description>i love this proposal and while maybe there&#039;s no &quot;free lunch&quot; in the chicago vernacular there is a hitch relating to now.

this isn&#039;t a foreclosure cure!

1. homes that were over-valued still have more to drop.

2. insolvent businesses (and governments and individuals) have more not less trouble to come.

3. this means people&#039;s debts are bigger than their assets&#039; underlying value or than their ability to pay.

4. which means, millions of building owners are not credit-worthy.

5. which means until their loans are refinanced, written down, or forgiven, people near foreclosure are not creditworthy. no sane bank would lend to them.

energy savings to pay for a loan don&#039;t mean a lick if the house is suddenly empty, cold, and dark.

so while this is probably a good medium-term stimulus and builds the economy, giving people hope and things to rely on, &quot;more loans to the rescue&quot; is nature&#039;s way of telling you the author doesn&#039;t understand our situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i love this proposal and while maybe there&#8217;s no &#8220;free lunch&#8221; in the chicago vernacular there is a hitch relating to now.</p>
<p>this isn&#8217;t a foreclosure cure!</p>
<p>1. homes that were over-valued still have more to drop.</p>
<p>2. insolvent businesses (and governments and individuals) have more not less trouble to come.</p>
<p>3. this means people&#8217;s debts are bigger than their assets&#8217; underlying value or than their ability to pay.</p>
<p>4. which means, millions of building owners are not credit-worthy.</p>
<p>5. which means until their loans are refinanced, written down, or forgiven, people near foreclosure are not creditworthy. no sane bank would lend to them.</p>
<p>energy savings to pay for a loan don&#8217;t mean a lick if the house is suddenly empty, cold, and dark.</p>
<p>so while this is probably a good medium-term stimulus and builds the economy, giving people hope and things to rely on, &#8220;more loans to the rescue&#8221; is nature&#8217;s way of telling you the author doesn&#8217;t understand our situation.</p>
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		<title>By: guido</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/27/architecture-2030-stimulus-green-buildings/#comment-25746</link>
		<dc:creator>guido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/27/architecture-2030-stimulus-green-buildings/#comment-25746</guid>
		<description>Larry, back in the day, i bought a house that had four fireplaces...I love wood fires but that was ridiculus...So i converted one to pellets (corn i believe), and installed a wood insert...Interestingly, i found the pellets to be most efficient,,,a few corn pellets could throw on some heat.  And i believed, at the time, that corn was truly renewable  (just went down to the feed store)

Joe, another great article...until i watched the UC Berkeley presentationns for Rosenfield,,,i had no clue how much opportunity there was in making building more energy efficient...What was the number, close to 50% of coal plant&#039;s output goes to buildings?  Anyway, this plan seems like a win-win-win...I keep thinking how could this be perverted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry, back in the day, i bought a house that had four fireplaces&#8230;I love wood fires but that was ridiculus&#8230;So i converted one to pellets (corn i believe), and installed a wood insert&#8230;Interestingly, i found the pellets to be most efficient,,,a few corn pellets could throw on some heat.  And i believed, at the time, that corn was truly renewable  (just went down to the feed store)</p>
<p>Joe, another great article&#8230;until i watched the UC Berkeley presentationns for Rosenfield,,,i had no clue how much opportunity there was in making building more energy efficient&#8230;What was the number, close to 50% of coal plant&#8217;s output goes to buildings?  Anyway, this plan seems like a win-win-win&#8230;I keep thinking how could this be perverted.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Coleman</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/27/architecture-2030-stimulus-green-buildings/#comment-25744</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Joe, feel free to delete if inappropriate, but I would love some recommendations for efficient wood fireplace inserts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, feel free to delete if inappropriate, but I would love some recommendations for efficient wood fireplace inserts.</p>
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