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	<title>Comments on: Time to get charged up about advances in smaller, faster lithium-ion batteries</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Mark Shapiro</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33425</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Shapiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33425</guid>
		<description>Oops.  That MIT Tech Review interview with the hybrid engineer is at:

www.technologyreview.com/business/22298/?a=f</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops.  That MIT Tech Review interview with the hybrid engineer is at:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.technologyreview.com/business/22298/?a=f" rel="nofollow">http://www.technologyreview.com/business/22298/?a=f</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mark Shapiro</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33422</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Shapiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33422</guid>
		<description>MIT&#039;s Technology Review just ran an excellent,  short interview with Toyota engineer/executive Masatami Takimoto.  He describes Toyota&#039;s hybrid research and some battery considerations.

What fascinated me was that Toyota tried several hybrid configurations before settling on its current &quot;Hybrid synergy drive&quot;, and that a pure series hybrid was the runner-up.  I suspect that highway cruising is when you want the most direct connection between the ICE and the wheels.

This suggests that vehicles that only cruise rarely, like mail and other delivery vehicles, and city buses, are already perfect for series hybrids.  It also suggests that this new battery could tip the scales toward series hybrid for most cars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MIT&#8217;s Technology Review just ran an excellent,  short interview with Toyota engineer/executive Masatami Takimoto.  He describes Toyota&#8217;s hybrid research and some battery considerations.</p>
<p>What fascinated me was that Toyota tried several hybrid configurations before settling on its current &#8220;Hybrid synergy drive&#8221;, and that a pure series hybrid was the runner-up.  I suspect that highway cruising is when you want the most direct connection between the ICE and the wheels.</p>
<p>This suggests that vehicles that only cruise rarely, like mail and other delivery vehicles, and city buses, are already perfect for series hybrids.  It also suggests that this new battery could tip the scales toward series hybrid for most cars.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Shapiro</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33399</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Shapiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33399</guid>
		<description>Yes.  It&#039;s getting harder to keep the caveats in mind. . . . It&#039;s only in the laboratory . . . it&#039;s not in production yet . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes.  It&#8217;s getting harder to keep the caveats in mind. . . . It&#8217;s only in the laboratory . . . it&#8217;s not in production yet . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Wallace</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33393</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33393</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t overlook the &quot;smaller, lighter, less materials&quot; part of the MIT lithiums.

Smaller means more design flexibility and less interior room eaten by batteries.

Lighter means less means less mass to haul around.

Less materials means lower costs.

Those things are just as important to all-electric cars as is a 18x to 36x faster charge rate.

Lighter and less expensive is what we need to move quickly through the PHEV stage and on to a personal transportation system free of petroleum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t overlook the &#8220;smaller, lighter, less materials&#8221; part of the MIT lithiums.</p>
<p>Smaller means more design flexibility and less interior room eaten by batteries.</p>
<p>Lighter means less means less mass to haul around.</p>
<p>Less materials means lower costs.</p>
<p>Those things are just as important to all-electric cars as is a 18x to 36x faster charge rate.</p>
<p>Lighter and less expensive is what we need to move quickly through the PHEV stage and on to a personal transportation system free of petroleum.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Shapiro</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33392</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Shapiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33392</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m trying to keep Joe&#039;s warning in mind -- this improved Li-ion battery is only in the lab, at least 3 years from production (if ever), but . . .

What it might do is make a series hybrid a reality.  Prius hybrid synergy drive rules the roost now, but its transaxle is heavy, complex, and expensive.  A Toyota engineer discusses it here: 
www.calcars.org/calcars-news/848.html 

A better battery could make a simpler, more efficient, less expensive series hybrid a reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m trying to keep Joe&#8217;s warning in mind &#8212; this improved Li-ion battery is only in the lab, at least 3 years from production (if ever), but . . .</p>
<p>What it might do is make a series hybrid a reality.  Prius hybrid synergy drive rules the roost now, but its transaxle is heavy, complex, and expensive.  A Toyota engineer discusses it here:<br />
<a href="http://www.calcars.org/calcars-news/848.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.calcars.org/calcars-news/848.html</a> </p>
<p>A better battery could make a simpler, more efficient, less expensive series hybrid a reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Mercer</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33391</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Mercer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33391</guid>
		<description>I agree with Bob Wallace

The issue of needing a large power supply to get a quick charge doesn&#039;t seem like that big of a problem to me. It&#039;s on long trips that  a quick charge would be needed most.  Otherwise, slower charging at home should be adequate for most situations.  Commercial charging stations could fill the need for longer trips.  It&#039;s always seemed to me that the biggest issue that will keep people from buying electric cars is range limitation.  These charging stations could fill that need.  Which is what makes the PHEV attractive at least as a transition vehicle.
Even with a PHEV you would want to charge the battery, if it can be done quickly, on a long drive.  (cheaper and greener than gasoline)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Bob Wallace</p>
<p>The issue of needing a large power supply to get a quick charge doesn&#8217;t seem like that big of a problem to me. It&#8217;s on long trips that  a quick charge would be needed most.  Otherwise, slower charging at home should be adequate for most situations.  Commercial charging stations could fill the need for longer trips.  It&#8217;s always seemed to me that the biggest issue that will keep people from buying electric cars is range limitation.  These charging stations could fill that need.  Which is what makes the PHEV attractive at least as a transition vehicle.<br />
Even with a PHEV you would want to charge the battery, if it can be done quickly, on a long drive.  (cheaper and greener than gasoline)</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Mercer</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33389</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Mercer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33389</guid>
		<description>Phoenix Motor Cars was claiming a ten minute charge capability using a 480 volt charger.  The lithium-titanate battery was from AltairNano.  Anybody know what happened with that?
I know their initial shipment of batteries were somehow defective, which has delayed production plans. But I am curious if the claim is valid.  Their light utility pickup, which they are planning to sell in Mexico, is supposed to have a range of about 130 miles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phoenix Motor Cars was claiming a ten minute charge capability using a 480 volt charger.  The lithium-titanate battery was from AltairNano.  Anybody know what happened with that?<br />
I know their initial shipment of batteries were somehow defective, which has delayed production plans. But I am curious if the claim is valid.  Their light utility pickup, which they are planning to sell in Mexico, is supposed to have a range of about 130 miles.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Shapiro</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33382</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Shapiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 06:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33382</guid>
		<description>. . . or charging on the fly electromagnetically, or by some other means . . .

(As you can see I&#039;m still dreaming of delivering juice to the car somehow while it&#039;s on the road.  Rapid charge/discharge removes one stumbling block.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>. . . or charging on the fly electromagnetically, or by some other means . . .</p>
<p>(As you can see I&#8217;m still dreaming of delivering juice to the car somehow while it&#8217;s on the road.  Rapid charge/discharge removes one stumbling block.)</p>
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		<title>By: jorleh</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33371</link>
		<dc:creator>jorleh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 06:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33371</guid>
		<description>Direct electricity for cars is the solution. After that you can take advantages of new batter technology. Direct electric plug-in hybrids. Nice to take your electricity out of the small grid above the main roads and streets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Direct electricity for cars is the solution. After that you can take advantages of new batter technology. Direct electric plug-in hybrids. Nice to take your electricity out of the small grid above the main roads and streets.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Wallace</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33350</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 04:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/lithium-batteries-fast-charging-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles/#comment-33350</guid>
		<description>The importance of these batteries is two-fold.

First, very rapid charging ability means that these batteries make regenerative braking feasible.  

Current lithiums accept power too slowly for regenerative braking to be effective and people have been working with hybrid lithium battery/ultra capacitors to solve this problem.  

They also simplify the problems of supplying lots of power for rapid acceleration.   Rapid charging lithiums eliminate the need for more complex solutions.

Second, rapid charging lithiums make long distance all-electric travel possible without resorting to battery swap schemes.

We (the majority of us) don&#039;t need rapid charing for our daily lives.  In fact, most could get by with a 40 mile range electric and the ability to plug in both at home and work.  Expand that range to 100 miles or more and only &quot;traveling salesmen&quot; would routinely need anything more.

Rapid charge batteries would make it possible to drive long distances with only short stops for recharging.  For example, we would need only a handful of rapid charge stations between SF and LA to get the system going.

Rapid charging could be done with either &quot;big wire&quot;/HVDC feed in or with banks of ultra capacitors which would be continuously charged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The importance of these batteries is two-fold.</p>
<p>First, very rapid charging ability means that these batteries make regenerative braking feasible.  </p>
<p>Current lithiums accept power too slowly for regenerative braking to be effective and people have been working with hybrid lithium battery/ultra capacitors to solve this problem.  </p>
<p>They also simplify the problems of supplying lots of power for rapid acceleration.   Rapid charging lithiums eliminate the need for more complex solutions.</p>
<p>Second, rapid charging lithiums make long distance all-electric travel possible without resorting to battery swap schemes.</p>
<p>We (the majority of us) don&#8217;t need rapid charing for our daily lives.  In fact, most could get by with a 40 mile range electric and the ability to plug in both at home and work.  Expand that range to 100 miles or more and only &#8220;traveling salesmen&#8221; would routinely need anything more.</p>
<p>Rapid charge batteries would make it possible to drive long distances with only short stops for recharging.  For example, we would need only a handful of rapid charge stations between SF and LA to get the system going.</p>
<p>Rapid charging could be done with either &#8220;big wire&#8221;/HVDC feed in or with banks of ultra capacitors which would be continuously charged.</p>
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