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	<title>Comments on: Huge &#8216;Green Power Express&#8217; wind grid gains federal rate incentives</title>
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	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/16/itc-green-power-express-wind-grid-transmission-ferc/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Wilmot McCutchen</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/16/itc-green-power-express-wind-grid-transmission-ferc/#comment-39866</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilmot McCutchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=5594#comment-39866</guid>
		<description>Wind storage could also be in the form of cracking energy for CO2 and SO2 emitted by coal-fired power plants.  When there is abundant wind (at night) the stored CO2 from coal combustion (or IGCC) would be electrolytically dissociated (cracked), forming O2 (for improved gasification or combustion) and solid carbon and sulfur.  Otherwise the wind energy would just go to waste.  The electrolysis products of CO2 and SO2 become, effectively, means for wind energy storage.  Carbon and oxygen recycling makes more sense than underground storage (sequestration).

Post-combustion coal CO2 capture and conversion is an urgent problem because in the next decade China will be adding 800,000 MW of coal power -- 250% of the present coal-fired power plants in the US.  Coal combustion is the largest source of CO2.

Co-sited concentrating solar and natural gas are now being discussed http://www.powermag.com/issues/features/Fossil-Fuels-+-Solar-Energy-The-Future-of-Electricity-Generation_1797.html and the marriage of coal and wind might be next.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wind storage could also be in the form of cracking energy for CO2 and SO2 emitted by coal-fired power plants.  When there is abundant wind (at night) the stored CO2 from coal combustion (or IGCC) would be electrolytically dissociated (cracked), forming O2 (for improved gasification or combustion) and solid carbon and sulfur.  Otherwise the wind energy would just go to waste.  The electrolysis products of CO2 and SO2 become, effectively, means for wind energy storage.  Carbon and oxygen recycling makes more sense than underground storage (sequestration).</p>
<p>Post-combustion coal CO2 capture and conversion is an urgent problem because in the next decade China will be adding 800,000 MW of coal power &#8212; 250% of the present coal-fired power plants in the US.  Coal combustion is the largest source of CO2.</p>
<p>Co-sited concentrating solar and natural gas are now being discussed <a href="http://www.powermag.com/issues/features/Fossil-Fuels-+-Solar-Energy-The-Future-of-Electricity-Generation_1797.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.powermag.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>issues/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>features/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>Fossil-Fuels-+-Solar-Energy-The-Future-of-Electricity-Generation_1797.html</a> and the marriage of coal and wind might be next.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Howes</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/16/itc-green-power-express-wind-grid-transmission-ferc/#comment-39776</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Howes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=5594#comment-39776</guid>
		<description>David B,
Minnesota, Wisconsin and Iowa all have hydro electric power that can even-out some of the variability of wind. N Dakota is also lined to Manitoba&#039;s very large hydro dams on Winnipeg and Nelson rivers.

This green gird is covering an area about 10 times larger than Denmark, so the variability should be much less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David B,<br />
Minnesota, Wisconsin and Iowa all have hydro electric power that can even-out some of the variability of wind. N Dakota is also lined to Manitoba&#8217;s very large hydro dams on Winnipeg and Nelson rivers.</p>
<p>This green gird is covering an area about 10 times larger than Denmark, so the variability should be much less.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/16/itc-green-power-express-wind-grid-transmission-ferc/#comment-39766</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=5594#comment-39766</guid>
		<description>David B., Mike -- the concept of &quot;grid storage&quot; is not one of literally storing the energy; it&#039;s that the averaging effect of combining many consumers and producers into one  big pool allows you to effectively &quot;store&quot; energy by selling into the grid when you have a surplus.

Usually it applies to home PV setups -- instead of buying a massive block of batteries to store excess power in the day and use it overnight yourself, you just &quot;store&quot; it on the gird -- sell your surplus during the day, then buy it &quot;back&quot; at night.  This works nicely given that overall demand is usually much higher during the day.

For wind power, perhaps the term &quot;buffering&quot; would be better than &quot;storage&quot;, as the effect needed is to have many geographically-dispersed turbines available to the same pool of consumers.  If set up correctly, odds are nearly certain that there will be enough wind blowing somewhere among the turbines to provide for the power needs at any given moment.

Of course, then, some actual storage might still be desired, to bring the reliability from 98% or 99% up to fully 100%, while dropping the traditional CO2-producing &quot;baseload&quot; sources down to zero.  Fortunately, the transition should be gradual (e.g. natural gas will remain acceptable for a while to replace coal, and it&#039;s production can be fully controlled and easily adjusted), so there will be enough time for the population of car batteries to grow to fill this need -- provided these new &quot;green&quot; grids are truly &lt;i&gt;smart&lt;/i&gt; grids that can communicate price signals to/from the cars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David B., Mike &#8212; the concept of &#8220;grid storage&#8221; is not one of literally storing the energy; it&#8217;s that the averaging effect of combining many consumers and producers into one  big pool allows you to effectively &#8220;store&#8221; energy by selling into the grid when you have a surplus.</p>
<p>Usually it applies to home PV setups &#8212; instead of buying a massive block of batteries to store excess power in the day and use it overnight yourself, you just &#8220;store&#8221; it on the gird &#8212; sell your surplus during the day, then buy it &#8220;back&#8221; at night.  This works nicely given that overall demand is usually much higher during the day.</p>
<p>For wind power, perhaps the term &#8220;buffering&#8221; would be better than &#8220;storage&#8221;, as the effect needed is to have many geographically-dispersed turbines available to the same pool of consumers.  If set up correctly, odds are nearly certain that there will be enough wind blowing somewhere among the turbines to provide for the power needs at any given moment.</p>
<p>Of course, then, some actual storage might still be desired, to bring the reliability from 98% or 99% up to fully 100%, while dropping the traditional CO2-producing &#8220;baseload&#8221; sources down to zero.  Fortunately, the transition should be gradual (e.g. natural gas will remain acceptable for a while to replace coal, and it&#8217;s production can be fully controlled and easily adjusted), so there will be enough time for the population of car batteries to grow to fill this need &#8212; provided these new &#8220;green&#8221; grids are truly <i>smart</i> grids that can communicate price signals to/from the cars.</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/16/itc-green-power-express-wind-grid-transmission-ferc/#comment-39762</link>
		<dc:creator>David B. Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=5594#comment-39762</guid>
		<description>Mike Hord --- Either storage or backup is required.  Various ideas are being floated; an obvious choice in Montana is a pumped hydro facility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike Hord &#8212; Either storage or backup is required.  Various ideas are being floated; an obvious choice in Montana is a pumped hydro facility.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Hord</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/16/itc-green-power-express-wind-grid-transmission-ferc/#comment-39752</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Hord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=5594#comment-39752</guid>
		<description>David B.- I think hapa&#039;s point was that some sort of storage needs to be added to the grid to make wind viable.  At least that&#039;s my hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David B.- I think hapa&#8217;s point was that some sort of storage needs to be added to the grid to make wind viable.  At least that&#8217;s my hope.</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/16/itc-green-power-express-wind-grid-transmission-ferc/#comment-39741</link>
		<dc:creator>David B. Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=5594#comment-39741</guid>
		<description>hapa --- The electric power grid has no storage capacity, none at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hapa &#8212; The electric power grid has no storage capacity, none at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Gunther</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/16/itc-green-power-express-wind-grid-transmission-ferc/#comment-39703</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Gunther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 18:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=5594#comment-39703</guid>
		<description>My understanding of the Green Power Express is that at one of the nodes is a mine-mouth coal plant with the room to build several more. Anybody know about anything in this decision that would force the Green Power Express to carry only green power?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding of the Green Power Express is that at one of the nodes is a mine-mouth coal plant with the room to build several more. Anybody know about anything in this decision that would force the Green Power Express to carry only green power?</p>
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		<title>By: Wilmot McCutchen</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/16/itc-green-power-express-wind-grid-transmission-ferc/#comment-39702</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilmot McCutchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 18:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=5594#comment-39702</guid>
		<description>The FERC does not have the authority to override parochial obstacles and environmental hold-ups.  Its decision is without practical effect.  Congress needs to create a new agency (apart from DOE) which has strong eminent domain authority and is not subject to extortionate threats of delay by local politicians and environmentalists.  Building out and modernizing the capacity and transmission lines of an integrated national grid will take a vigorous exercise of the Commerce Clause by Congress and the President.  It was done with the federal highway system and the FCC, and the time has come for a national power policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The FERC does not have the authority to override parochial obstacles and environmental hold-ups.  Its decision is without practical effect.  Congress needs to create a new agency (apart from DOE) which has strong eminent domain authority and is not subject to extortionate threats of delay by local politicians and environmentalists.  Building out and modernizing the capacity and transmission lines of an integrated national grid will take a vigorous exercise of the Commerce Clause by Congress and the President.  It was done with the federal highway system and the FCC, and the time has come for a national power policy.</p>
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		<title>By: hapa</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/16/itc-green-power-express-wind-grid-transmission-ferc/#comment-39692</link>
		<dc:creator>hapa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=5594#comment-39692</guid>
		<description>oops: &quot;as&quot; should be &quot;than&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops: &#8220;as&#8221; should be &#8220;than&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: hapa</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/16/itc-green-power-express-wind-grid-transmission-ferc/#comment-39690</link>
		<dc:creator>hapa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=5594#comment-39690</guid>
		<description>wind needs grid smoothing and grid storage to grow into the shoes of fossil fuels. these grids people are building, are they more mathematically-complex as IV drips? even without a federal policy, we should be able to set some standard that has in it the capacity to stabilize wind-power voltage through crafty routing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wind needs grid smoothing and grid storage to grow into the shoes of fossil fuels. these grids people are building, are they more mathematically-complex as IV drips? even without a federal policy, we should be able to set some standard that has in it the capacity to stabilize wind-power voltage through crafty routing.</p>
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