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	<title>Comments on: Energy Secretary Chu: Paint roofs white to fight global warming</title>
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	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/05/27/energy-steven-chu-white-roofs-geo-engineering-adaptation-mitigation/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:52:49 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Roger Capettini</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/05/27/energy-steven-chu-white-roofs-geo-engineering-adaptation-mitigation/#comment-123425</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Capettini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7189#comment-123425</guid>
		<description>Is there any product that can be used at a reasonable cost --- and which will produce the desired results -- for changing the color of your shingle roof?

[&lt;em&gt;JR:  &quot;Energy Star&quot; white reflective paint&lt;/em&gt;.]
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there any product that can be used at a reasonable cost &#8212; and which will produce the desired results &#8212; for changing the color of your shingle roof?</p>
<p>[<em>JR:  "Energy Star" white reflective paint</em>.]</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Bullis, Miastrada Co.</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/05/27/energy-steven-chu-white-roofs-geo-engineering-adaptation-mitigation/#comment-92530</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Bullis, Miastrada Co.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7189#comment-92530</guid>
		<description>Re my last, on further consideration, I have that wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re my last, on further consideration, I have that wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Lewis Perelman</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/05/27/energy-steven-chu-white-roofs-geo-engineering-adaptation-mitigation/#comment-68797</link>
		<dc:creator>Lewis Perelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 14:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7189#comment-68797</guid>
		<description>There seems to be chronic misunderstanding of the thermodynamics of roof color in cold/northern settings.  Roof color affects not only how much radiation is absorbed but also how much is emitted.  A dark surface will just as efficiently radiate heat energy in the dark, at night, as it absorbs radiation from light during the day.  (At least in general; particular materials may radiate or reflect specific wavelengths differently.)

Given that in high latitude locations there are more dark hours than light hours in the winter, a dark roof is prone to radiate as more heat energy out of a structure at night than it absorbs from sunlight during the day.

This is so regardless of the amount of attic insulation.  A well insulated attic obviously will reduce conductive heat loss.  It also will equally reduce the amount of heat conveyed to living space from any energy absorbed by the roof during daylight hours.  Any heat absorbed from the sun during the day still will be radiated away at night.

Overall, the benefits of reflective roofs are the same in both hot and cold weather: they reduce the flow of heat energy across the envelope of a building.  This is the same reason that a thermos bottle is useful both to keep a cold drink cold and to keep a hot beverage warm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There seems to be chronic misunderstanding of the thermodynamics of roof color in cold/northern settings.  Roof color affects not only how much radiation is absorbed but also how much is emitted.  A dark surface will just as efficiently radiate heat energy in the dark, at night, as it absorbs radiation from light during the day.  (At least in general; particular materials may radiate or reflect specific wavelengths differently.)</p>
<p>Given that in high latitude locations there are more dark hours than light hours in the winter, a dark roof is prone to radiate as more heat energy out of a structure at night than it absorbs from sunlight during the day.</p>
<p>This is so regardless of the amount of attic insulation.  A well insulated attic obviously will reduce conductive heat loss.  It also will equally reduce the amount of heat conveyed to living space from any energy absorbed by the roof during daylight hours.  Any heat absorbed from the sun during the day still will be radiated away at night.</p>
<p>Overall, the benefits of reflective roofs are the same in both hot and cold weather: they reduce the flow of heat energy across the envelope of a building.  This is the same reason that a thermos bottle is useful both to keep a cold drink cold and to keep a hot beverage warm.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy Somerville</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/05/27/energy-steven-chu-white-roofs-geo-engineering-adaptation-mitigation/#comment-64204</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy Somerville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 20:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7189#comment-64204</guid>
		<description>The preferred alternative should always be green, i.e., vegetated roofs, wherever they are feasible.  Green roofs provide greater cooling benefits, reduce building energy use, provide significant stormwater management benefits, and actively clean and filter the air and water.  Although the up-front costs are higher than conventional roofs--and here is where tax incentives, tax credits, or public/private financing partnerships need to kick in--they more than pay for themselves over time through building energy savings and significantly longer lifespan.  The data we have collected on our (American Society of Landscape Architects&#039;) green roof shows how effective green roofs are at addressing multiple environmental issues.  You can check it out on our website:  www.asla.org.  Click on the &quot;tour our green roof&quot; link in the right column.  All that being said, if a green roof is not feasible because of roof construction, the lighter colored roof is absolutely the right way to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The preferred alternative should always be green, i.e., vegetated roofs, wherever they are feasible.  Green roofs provide greater cooling benefits, reduce building energy use, provide significant stormwater management benefits, and actively clean and filter the air and water.  Although the up-front costs are higher than conventional roofs&#8211;and here is where tax incentives, tax credits, or public/private financing partnerships need to kick in&#8211;they more than pay for themselves over time through building energy savings and significantly longer lifespan.  The data we have collected on our (American Society of Landscape Architects&#8217;) green roof shows how effective green roofs are at addressing multiple environmental issues.  You can check it out on our website:  <a href="http://www.asla.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.asla.org</a>.  Click on the &#8220;tour our green roof&#8221; link in the right column.  All that being said, if a green roof is not feasible because of roof construction, the lighter colored roof is absolutely the right way to go.</p>
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		<title>By: James Dillard</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/05/27/energy-steven-chu-white-roofs-geo-engineering-adaptation-mitigation/#comment-61346</link>
		<dc:creator>James Dillard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 04:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7189#comment-61346</guid>
		<description>Do you have any information about the impact of a white roof on the cooling bill of the building? If this can be quantified, could the carbon savings be quantified and sold as a carbon credit?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you have any information about the impact of a white roof on the cooling bill of the building? If this can be quantified, could the carbon savings be quantified and sold as a carbon credit?</p>
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		<title>By: Modesty</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/05/27/energy-steven-chu-white-roofs-geo-engineering-adaptation-mitigation/#comment-60882</link>
		<dc:creator>Modesty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 14:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7189#comment-60882</guid>
		<description>Omega Centauri:

Who is talking about (anyone talking about) this being a silver bullet? Just cause Joe says:
 
nobody here has proposed this as the solution to global warming...don&#039;t attack strawmen...

doesn&#039;t mean that anyone WAS SUGGESTING that anyone (here) HAD proposed this as the &quot;the solution to global warming&quot; (= silver bullet). I certainly did not suggest that anyone here, least of all Joe, had proposed this as &quot;the&quot; solution.

Where did THAT idea come from? Probably from my silly attempt to shoehorn my point into a paraphrase of a Prince song (may be qualified...never take the place...). So much for trying to be funny. Sorry about the confusion this caused. (But I certainly did NOT mean that anyone here had said that it COULD take the place of ALL or most CO2 reductions.)

For the record:

I think the white materials stuff is great, a no-brainer. Not that it matters, but I did say this in January.

Geoengineering approaches that focus on the radiative balance obviously need to be considered, to stave off some warming (and this one carries benefits in two additional dimensions, hence the win-win-win), but I see no reason to talk about the albedo effect in terms of &quot;offsetting&quot; CO2 (no matter the potential size of these effects). 

Unless I misunderstood Joe in January, he seemed to agree that the pervasive use of the word &quot;offsets&quot; (as a verb) in the original article was unfortunate ( I believe he said it was a &quot;dumb word&quot;).  

Therefore, I was surprised to see the figure caption in the current post use this word.

That&#039;s all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Omega Centauri:</p>
<p>Who is talking about (anyone talking about) this being a silver bullet? Just cause Joe says:</p>
<p>nobody here has proposed this as the solution to global warming&#8230;don&#8217;t attack strawmen&#8230;</p>
<p>doesn&#8217;t mean that anyone WAS SUGGESTING that anyone (here) HAD proposed this as the &#8220;the solution to global warming&#8221; (= silver bullet). I certainly did not suggest that anyone here, least of all Joe, had proposed this as &#8220;the&#8221; solution.</p>
<p>Where did THAT idea come from? Probably from my silly attempt to shoehorn my point into a paraphrase of a Prince song (may be qualified&#8230;never take the place&#8230;). So much for trying to be funny. Sorry about the confusion this caused. (But I certainly did NOT mean that anyone here had said that it COULD take the place of ALL or most CO2 reductions.)</p>
<p>For the record:</p>
<p>I think the white materials stuff is great, a no-brainer. Not that it matters, but I did say this in January.</p>
<p>Geoengineering approaches that focus on the radiative balance obviously need to be considered, to stave off some warming (and this one carries benefits in two additional dimensions, hence the win-win-win), but I see no reason to talk about the albedo effect in terms of &#8220;offsetting&#8221; CO2 (no matter the potential size of these effects). </p>
<p>Unless I misunderstood Joe in January, he seemed to agree that the pervasive use of the word &#8220;offsets&#8221; (as a verb) in the original article was unfortunate ( I believe he said it was a &#8220;dumb word&#8221;).  </p>
<p>Therefore, I was surprised to see the figure caption in the current post use this word.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s all.</p>
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		<title>By: Gail</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/05/27/energy-steven-chu-white-roofs-geo-engineering-adaptation-mitigation/#comment-60863</link>
		<dc:creator>Gail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 14:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7189#comment-60863</guid>
		<description>Well, I concede.  If Sara Palin is against it, it must be an absolutely brilliant idea!

http://palingates.blogspot.com/2009/05/sarah-palin-and-nobel-prize-winner.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I concede.  If Sara Palin is against it, it must be an absolutely brilliant idea!</p>
<p><a href="http://palingates.blogspot.com/2009/05/sarah-palin-and-nobel-prize-winner.html" rel="nofollow">http://palingates.blogspot.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2009/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>05/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>sarah-palin-and-nobel-prize-winner.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Edward Greisch</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/05/27/energy-steven-chu-white-roofs-geo-engineering-adaptation-mitigation/#comment-60671</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Greisch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 07:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7189#comment-60671</guid>
		<description>Thank you Gail.   I made 2 suggestions so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Gail.   I made 2 suggestions so far.</p>
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		<title>By: Omega Centauri</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/05/27/energy-steven-chu-white-roofs-geo-engineering-adaptation-mitigation/#comment-60561</link>
		<dc:creator>Omega Centauri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 03:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7189#comment-60561</guid>
		<description>It is silly to be concerned that short wave negative forcings (albedo enhancements) will cause ocean acidification. If we had sufficient albedo anhancements available to tolerate say 500ppm CO2, that would be a concern. But the albedo enhancements suggested so far would only shift the global temp versus CO2 concentration curves by a few ppm. They may be a cost effective BB, but no-one serious would consider them as a silver bullet. But, as most energy/climate experts think we need a whole stack of BB&#039;s, we got to collect as many of them as we can.

   Incidentally, I&#039;ve tried highly diluted outdoor paint (less than one part per hundred of paint), as a concrete cleaner. It makes older concrete look newer -by raising the albedo several percent. I suspect this technique could very cheaply make some modest difference, and you could probably use a street sweeper to apply it at very low cost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is silly to be concerned that short wave negative forcings (albedo enhancements) will cause ocean acidification. If we had sufficient albedo anhancements available to tolerate say 500ppm CO2, that would be a concern. But the albedo enhancements suggested so far would only shift the global temp versus CO2 concentration curves by a few ppm. They may be a cost effective BB, but no-one serious would consider them as a silver bullet. But, as most energy/climate experts think we need a whole stack of BB&#8217;s, we got to collect as many of them as we can.</p>
<p>   Incidentally, I&#8217;ve tried highly diluted outdoor paint (less than one part per hundred of paint), as a concrete cleaner. It makes older concrete look newer -by raising the albedo several percent. I suspect this technique could very cheaply make some modest difference, and you could probably use a street sweeper to apply it at very low cost.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkB</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/05/27/energy-steven-chu-white-roofs-geo-engineering-adaptation-mitigation/#comment-60411</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 23:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7189#comment-60411</guid>
		<description>John V / Bill R

I was curious about this too.  Wikipedia has a fairly good well-sourced entry on this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_roof#Cool_Roofs_in_Cool_Climates

I think the heat loss from reflective roofs isn&#039;t that substantial in colder climates largely because the sun is lower in the sky during the winter months to begin with (for the same reason, solar panels generate more electricity in the summer), heating demand is highest in the evening (where the roof feature wouldn&#039;t make a difference), and cool roofs help retain snow in areas of moderate snowfall, which provides some insulation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John V / Bill R</p>
<p>I was curious about this too.  Wikipedia has a fairly good well-sourced entry on this.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_roof#Cool_Roofs_in_Cool_Climates" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>wiki/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>Cool_roof#Cool_Roofs_in_Cool_Climates</a></p>
<p>I think the heat loss from reflective roofs isn&#8217;t that substantial in colder climates largely because the sun is lower in the sky during the winter months to begin with (for the same reason, solar panels generate more electricity in the summer), heating demand is highest in the evening (where the roof feature wouldn&#8217;t make a difference), and cool roofs help retain snow in areas of moderate snowfall, which provides some insulation.</p>
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