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	<title>Comments on: How I learned to stop worrying and love the blogosphere</title>
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	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/03/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-blogosphere/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Eli Rabett</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/03/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-blogosphere/#comment-95321</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli Rabett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7504#comment-95321</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s hard to remember, but &quot;The Talent&quot; is too young for Dr. Strangelove to be anything but a distant cultural reference and Eli is not too sure about his dad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s hard to remember, but &#8220;The Talent&#8221; is too young for Dr. Strangelove to be anything but a distant cultural reference and Eli is not too sure about his dad.</p>
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		<title>By: Asteroid Miner</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/03/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-blogosphere/#comment-94268</link>
		<dc:creator>Asteroid Miner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 04:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7504#comment-94268</guid>
		<description>&quot;You just have to compare it to the alternative (i.e. utter failure and business as usual emissions).&quot;
Does W-M [HR2454] still take away the EPA&#039;s authority under the Clean Air Act?   I would like to see a complete and thorough analysis of what the EPA could and could not do with its Clean Air Act authority intact.

[&lt;em&gt;JR:  I have discussed this many times.  The answer is EPA could mostly regulate new sources easily, but existing sources only with great difficulty after many years of litigation.&lt;/em&gt;]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You just have to compare it to the alternative (i.e. utter failure and business as usual emissions).&#8221;<br />
Does W-M [HR2454] still take away the EPA&#8217;s authority under the Clean Air Act?   I would like to see a complete and thorough analysis of what the EPA could and could not do with its Clean Air Act authority intact.</p>
<p>[<em>JR:  I have discussed this many times.  The answer is EPA could mostly regulate new sources easily, but existing sources only with great difficulty after many years of litigation.</em>]</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/03/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-blogosphere/#comment-94036</link>
		<dc:creator>David B. Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 00:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7504#comment-94036</guid>
		<description>What &lt;b&gt;Modesty&lt;/b&gt; wrote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What <b>Modesty</b> wrote.</p>
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		<title>By: Modesty</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/03/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-blogosphere/#comment-93544</link>
		<dc:creator>Modesty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 15:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7504#comment-93544</guid>
		<description>What john said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What john said.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/03/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-blogosphere/#comment-93497</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7504#comment-93497</guid>
		<description>David Stern:

There are a collection of deniers who specialize in appearing rational while intentionally undermining public understanding of climate change and confusing the hapless media.

The Pielkes, the BTI folks, Lomborg among them.  They are especially pernisicous precisely because they have learned to use the rhetorical technique of appearin to embrace the postition they argue against.  How much more credible is the argument if it comes from a supporter?  How much more acceptable is it?

Think of Marc Antony&#039;s speech in Julius Caesar -- he &quot;came to bury Caesar, not to praise him.&quot;

But praise him he did.

And the Pielkes of the word come to accept the science, not to deny it.

But deny it they do.  Subtly, skillfully, but that makes them all the more dangerous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Stern:</p>
<p>There are a collection of deniers who specialize in appearing rational while intentionally undermining public understanding of climate change and confusing the hapless media.</p>
<p>The Pielkes, the BTI folks, Lomborg among them.  They are especially pernisicous precisely because they have learned to use the rhetorical technique of appearin to embrace the postition they argue against.  How much more credible is the argument if it comes from a supporter?  How much more acceptable is it?</p>
<p>Think of Marc Antony&#8217;s speech in Julius Caesar &#8212; he &#8220;came to bury Caesar, not to praise him.&#8221;</p>
<p>But praise him he did.</p>
<p>And the Pielkes of the word come to accept the science, not to deny it.</p>
<p>But deny it they do.  Subtly, skillfully, but that makes them all the more dangerous.</p>
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		<title>By: Lou Grinzo</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/03/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-blogosphere/#comment-93376</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Grinzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 12:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7504#comment-93376</guid>
		<description>Q: How many climate change deniers does it take to change a light bulb?

A: THAT&#039;S NOT FUNNY!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Q: How many climate change deniers does it take to change a light bulb?</p>
<p>A: THAT&#8217;S NOT FUNNY!!!</p>
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		<title>By: PaulK</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/03/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-blogosphere/#comment-92824</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7504#comment-92824</guid>
		<description>The IPCC names increased CO2 concentrations and changes in land use as the causes of post WWII global warming. Pielke Sr.&#039;s sin is believing land use is the more important factor. 

[Snip.]

[&lt;em&gt;JR:  I can&#039;t speak to his &quot;sin.&quot;  I can only report on what the scientific literature and actual observations say.  They say he is grossly misleading the public, as RealClimate has shown definitively.  Given his background, it is difficult to see how this could be anything other than willful.  That makes him a denier by any reasonable definition of the word.

For someone who purportedly wants to replace fossil energy, you hold an odd set of beliefs.&lt;/em&gt;]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The IPCC names increased CO2 concentrations and changes in land use as the causes of post WWII global warming. Pielke Sr.&#8217;s sin is believing land use is the more important factor. </p>
<p>[Snip.]</p>
<p>[<em>JR:  I can't speak to his "sin."  I can only report on what the scientific literature and actual observations say.  They say he is grossly misleading the public, as RealClimate has shown definitively.  Given his background, it is difficult to see how this could be anything other than willful.  That makes him a denier by any reasonable definition of the word.</p>
<p>For someone who purportedly wants to replace fossil energy, you hold an odd set of beliefs.</em>]</p>
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		<title>By: David Stern</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/03/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-blogosphere/#comment-92793</link>
		<dc:creator>David Stern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7504#comment-92793</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d never heard of either of these Pielke guys but all your ranting against them drove me to read some of their stuff on their blogs and presentations. Both seem very reasonable to me. Neither is a climate change denier. I really don&#039;t get the rhetoric you are using against them.

[&lt;em&gt;JR:  I grant that if one just reads as their stuff without actually knowing how cleverly they abuse the science or their long history of intentional ambiguity, they do &quot;seem very reasonable.&quot;  And they long ago figured out that the best way to get media coverage is to claim to believe in climate science, while spending all of their time slightly eviscerating it and trashing the integrity of all scientists (and others) who tried to explain the real science to the public.  

Pielke Jr is probably the single most debunked &quot;non-denier&quot; on the web.  Pielke Sr. has revealed his true colors in the last couple of years, and I don&#039;t see how any objective observer could possibly read the RealClimate post and take him seriously any more.

If you don&#039;t get that, well, all I can say is that if the nation and the world actually listened to their recommendations -- which are essentially, take no serious action whatsoever to reduce greenhouse gas emissions -- then much of non-populated Australia will indeed turn into a permanent Dust Bowl, and what you folks are experience will become the norm for maybe one third of the habited planet by century&#039;s end, or at least that&#039;s what the science says.&lt;/em&gt;]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d never heard of either of these Pielke guys but all your ranting against them drove me to read some of their stuff on their blogs and presentations. Both seem very reasonable to me. Neither is a climate change denier. I really don&#8217;t get the rhetoric you are using against them.</p>
<p>[<em>JR:  I grant that if one just reads as their stuff without actually knowing how cleverly they abuse the science or their long history of intentional ambiguity, they do "seem very reasonable."  And they long ago figured out that the best way to get media coverage is to claim to believe in climate science, while spending all of their time slightly eviscerating it and trashing the integrity of all scientists (and others) who tried to explain the real science to the public.  </p>
<p>Pielke Jr is probably the single most debunked "non-denier" on the web.  Pielke Sr. has revealed his true colors in the last couple of years, and I don't see how any objective observer could possibly read the RealClimate post and take him seriously any more.</p>
<p>If you don't get that, well, all I can say is that if the nation and the world actually listened to their recommendations -- which are essentially, take no serious action whatsoever to reduce greenhouse gas emissions -- then much of non-populated Australia will indeed turn into a permanent Dust Bowl, and what you folks are experience will become the norm for maybe one third of the habited planet by century's end, or at least that's what the science says.</em>]</p>
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		<title>By: PaulK</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/03/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-blogosphere/#comment-92718</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7504#comment-92718</guid>
		<description>It appears General Ripper may have exceeded his authority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears General Ripper may have exceeded his authority.</p>
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		<title>By: PaulK</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/03/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-blogosphere/#comment-92712</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=7504#comment-92712</guid>
		<description>Yuebing,

Can you cite language in the bill intended to prevent pernicious profiteering? Why must Taibi read the bill when none of the congressmen who voted for it did either?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yuebing,</p>
<p>Can you cite language in the bill intended to prevent pernicious profiteering? Why must Taibi read the bill when none of the congressmen who voted for it did either?</p>
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