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	<title>Comments on: France imports UK electricity as summer heatwave puts a third of its nukes out of action</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/06/france-imports-uk-electricity-summer-heatwave-puts-nuclear-power-plants-out-of-action/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/06/france-imports-uk-electricity-summer-heatwave-puts-nuclear-power-plants-out-of-action/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: jcwinnie</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/06/france-imports-uk-electricity-summer-heatwave-puts-nuclear-power-plants-out-of-action/#comment-96751</link>
		<dc:creator>jcwinnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8741#comment-96751</guid>
		<description>@Levangie: That didn&#039;t count towards his Irony Quota, he was being sardonic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Levangie: That didn&#8217;t count towards his Irony Quota, he was being sardonic.</p>
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		<title>By: Lou Grinzo</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/06/france-imports-uk-electricity-summer-heatwave-puts-nuclear-power-plants-out-of-action/#comment-96716</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Grinzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 13:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8741#comment-96716</guid>
		<description>As the saying goes, &quot;It&#039;s not the things you don&#039;t know that get you into trouble, it&#039;s the things you know that ain&#039;t so.&quot;

In this case, it&#039;s the assumption that water supply that&#039;s here now, when you&#039;re building a thermoelectric generating plant (and nukes, as currently built, are the thirstiest), will be here for the life of the plant.  And that means not just quantity and purity, but temperature, as well.  (The quantity argument applies to hydro, also, of course.)

This is the often overlooked risk of the energy/water nexus I keep talking about: Yes, thermoelectric plants have a high water draw and a much smaller water consumption, but every time you build one you&#039;re creating an enormous, decades-long exposure and dependency on your ability to meet that water draw, a bet on your powers of prediction, with the cost of failure being potentially very high.

Because of the size of these projects and the amount of money involved, I think the only way we&#039;ll learn this lesson is through the pain of failure--e.g. a weeks-long regional blackout in the SE US.  Until then, we&#039;ll keep muddling along, ignoring events like the one in this post, and telling ourselves how smart we are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the saying goes, &#8220;It&#8217;s not the things you don&#8217;t know that get you into trouble, it&#8217;s the things you know that ain&#8217;t so.&#8221;</p>
<p>In this case, it&#8217;s the assumption that water supply that&#8217;s here now, when you&#8217;re building a thermoelectric generating plant (and nukes, as currently built, are the thirstiest), will be here for the life of the plant.  And that means not just quantity and purity, but temperature, as well.  (The quantity argument applies to hydro, also, of course.)</p>
<p>This is the often overlooked risk of the energy/water nexus I keep talking about: Yes, thermoelectric plants have a high water draw and a much smaller water consumption, but every time you build one you&#8217;re creating an enormous, decades-long exposure and dependency on your ability to meet that water draw, a bet on your powers of prediction, with the cost of failure being potentially very high.</p>
<p>Because of the size of these projects and the amount of money involved, I think the only way we&#8217;ll learn this lesson is through the pain of failure&#8211;e.g. a weeks-long regional blackout in the SE US.  Until then, we&#8217;ll keep muddling along, ignoring events like the one in this post, and telling ourselves how smart we are.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Wright</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/06/france-imports-uk-electricity-summer-heatwave-puts-nuclear-power-plants-out-of-action/#comment-96393</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 03:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8741#comment-96393</guid>
		<description>Enjoy your summer Belsha. Obvioulsy you did have a modest early season heat wave, and temperatures well above 30 were reported in many places. Also, the reactor power would not have been curtailed.  30 C is no big deal in the US either, unless the humidity is high.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enjoy your summer Belsha. Obvioulsy you did have a modest early season heat wave, and temperatures well above 30 were reported in many places. Also, the reactor power would not have been curtailed.  30 C is no big deal in the US either, unless the humidity is high.</p>
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		<title>By: belsha</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/06/france-imports-uk-electricity-summer-heatwave-puts-nuclear-power-plants-out-of-action/#comment-96208</link>
		<dc:creator>belsha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8741#comment-96208</guid>
		<description>What I find amusing is that you qualify the meager 30°C we had here in Paris as a &quot;heatwave&quot;. Nobody calls this a heat wave here, and people generally  are happy they can roll up their sleaves and have a drink outside at night after two very cold summers and a gruelling winter. Last time people here talked about a heat wave, in 2003, temperatures were more like 38°C with peaks above 40°. So the &quot;rapidly accelerating warming&quot; seems to mean here that cooler and cooler temperatures are considered abnormally hot...

Meanwhile, rain is hitting France, and weather reports predict maximal temperatures of 20° C and minimals of 11°C, and this in the middle of July! Looks like I have to put the heating back on in my appartment, and at the very least take out my wool sweaters and coats!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find amusing is that you qualify the meager 30°C we had here in Paris as a &#8220;heatwave&#8221;. Nobody calls this a heat wave here, and people generally  are happy they can roll up their sleaves and have a drink outside at night after two very cold summers and a gruelling winter. Last time people here talked about a heat wave, in 2003, temperatures were more like 38°C with peaks above 40°. So the &#8220;rapidly accelerating warming&#8221; seems to mean here that cooler and cooler temperatures are considered abnormally hot&#8230;</p>
<p>Meanwhile, rain is hitting France, and weather reports predict maximal temperatures of 20° C and minimals of 11°C, and this in the middle of July! Looks like I have to put the heating back on in my appartment, and at the very least take out my wool sweaters and coats!</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/06/france-imports-uk-electricity-summer-heatwave-puts-nuclear-power-plants-out-of-action/#comment-96188</link>
		<dc:creator>David B. Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8741#comment-96188</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Bob Wright&lt;/b&gt; --- That was a grid failure problem.  Not intentional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Bob Wright</b> &#8212; That was a grid failure problem.  Not intentional.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Wright</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/06/france-imports-uk-electricity-summer-heatwave-puts-nuclear-power-plants-out-of-action/#comment-96060</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8741#comment-96060</guid>
		<description>So Europe is having the heat waves this year. It has been the most pleasant (but rainy) summer (so far) in PA in many years.

I tried to google what sort of cooling towers Westinghouse is using for its planned reactors in Florida, the Carolinas (and Viet Nam), and coudn&#039;t find anythiing specific. There are a number of new configurations. Wet, dry, natural draft, fans, hybrids...and add-ons. Sounds like the French need to invest a few Euros on upgrades. Did they really just pull the plug going to Italy during the heat wave of 2003?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Europe is having the heat waves this year. It has been the most pleasant (but rainy) summer (so far) in PA in many years.</p>
<p>I tried to google what sort of cooling towers Westinghouse is using for its planned reactors in Florida, the Carolinas (and Viet Nam), and coudn&#8217;t find anythiing specific. There are a number of new configurations. Wet, dry, natural draft, fans, hybrids&#8230;and add-ons. Sounds like the French need to invest a few Euros on upgrades. Did they really just pull the plug going to Italy during the heat wave of 2003?</p>
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		<title>By: paulm</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/06/france-imports-uk-electricity-summer-heatwave-puts-nuclear-power-plants-out-of-action/#comment-96027</link>
		<dc:creator>paulm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8741#comment-96027</guid>
		<description>Bill Woods this will also become more inefficient when the temp goes up!

Amazing with all the money that they probably put in to risk assessment they didn&#039;t address this problem. Oh, wait, I think everyone was ignoring it back then for some unfathomable reason. In fact risk assessors have been ignoring global warming up until like last year. Just amazing. They should be sued by the relevant parties.

I guess they didn&#039;t see the sea level rise issue too. So all those nukes on the coast will have to be decommissioned and moved over the next 60yrs. Mmmm, I wonder how that is going to happen and how much it would cost. What will the consequences of an flooded plant on the coast be? The mind boggles.

Nuclear is a dead end.

These are the &#039;little&#039; problems that are going to (have) started to pop up due to GW. Its only going to cascade now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill Woods this will also become more inefficient when the temp goes up!</p>
<p>Amazing with all the money that they probably put in to risk assessment they didn&#8217;t address this problem. Oh, wait, I think everyone was ignoring it back then for some unfathomable reason. In fact risk assessors have been ignoring global warming up until like last year. Just amazing. They should be sued by the relevant parties.</p>
<p>I guess they didn&#8217;t see the sea level rise issue too. So all those nukes on the coast will have to be decommissioned and moved over the next 60yrs. Mmmm, I wonder how that is going to happen and how much it would cost. What will the consequences of an flooded plant on the coast be? The mind boggles.</p>
<p>Nuclear is a dead end.</p>
<p>These are the &#8216;little&#8217; problems that are going to (have) started to pop up due to GW. Its only going to cascade now.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Venner</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/06/france-imports-uk-electricity-summer-heatwave-puts-nuclear-power-plants-out-of-action/#comment-95991</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Venner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8741#comment-95991</guid>
		<description>Joe,

It seems like the &lt;a href=&quot;http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/29/csp-concentrating-solar-power-heller-water-use&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;indirect dry cooling systems &lt;/a&gt; that you have advocated for using in &quot;solar baseload&quot; could also solve France&#039;s nuclear cooling problem?  If so, then this isn&#039;t a good argument against nuclear &lt;em&gt;per se&lt;/em&gt;, although you still have all your other ones, since it would add to costs.

[&lt;em&gt;JR:  There is no doubt that nuclear can use dry cooling.  I believe a Phoenix plant already does.  I that all new power plants should be required to use dry cooling -- which of course would further undercut the economics of nuclear.&lt;/em&gt;]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,</p>
<p>It seems like the <a href="http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/29/csp-concentrating-solar-power-heller-water-use" rel="nofollow">indirect dry cooling systems </a> that you have advocated for using in &#8220;solar baseload&#8221; could also solve France&#8217;s nuclear cooling problem?  If so, then this isn&#8217;t a good argument against nuclear <em>per se</em>, although you still have all your other ones, since it would add to costs.</p>
<p>[<em>JR:  There is no doubt that nuclear can use dry cooling.  I believe a Phoenix plant already does.  I that all new power plants should be required to use dry cooling -- which of course would further undercut the economics of nuclear.</em>]</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Covert</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/06/france-imports-uk-electricity-summer-heatwave-puts-nuclear-power-plants-out-of-action/#comment-95979</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Covert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8741#comment-95979</guid>
		<description>Joe,

This article is ultimate argument against nuclear power addressing global warming. I believe you&#039;ve hit a Homer. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,</p>
<p>This article is ultimate argument against nuclear power addressing global warming. I believe you&#8217;ve hit a Homer. <img src='http://climateprogress.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Bill Woods</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/06/france-imports-uk-electricity-summer-heatwave-puts-nuclear-power-plants-out-of-action/#comment-95971</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Woods</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8741#comment-95971</guid>
		<description>What a pity there&#039;s no way to cool a thermal power plant without using river water....

http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/29/csp-concentrating-solar-power-heller-water-use/

[&lt;em&gt;JR:  There is.  Too bad virtually no nukes use this.  Now we just have to make sure this becomes standard on all new power plants that need cooling.&lt;/em&gt;]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a pity there&#8217;s no way to cool a thermal power plant without using river water&#8230;.</p>
<p><a href="http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/29/csp-concentrating-solar-power-heller-water-use/" rel="nofollow">http://climateprogress.org/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2009/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>04/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>29/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>csp-concentrating-solar-power-heller-water-use/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span></a></p>
<p>[<em>JR:  There is.  Too bad virtually no nukes use this.  Now we just have to make sure this becomes standard on all new power plants that need cooling.</em>]</p>
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