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	<title>Comments on: NSIDC:  Arctic &#8220;melt season in high gear&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/07/nsidc-national-snow-and-ice-data-center-arctic-ice-melt-area-volume/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Greg Robie</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/07/nsidc-national-snow-and-ice-data-center-arctic-ice-melt-area-volume/#comment-97283</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Robie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 04:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8838#comment-97283</guid>
		<description>Serreze and company have been very disciplined to limit what they post each month to facts.  While such is good science, it is less than informative relative to the &quot;smack-down&quot; affect of what can pass as being a &quot;good&quot; blog writing style/content. That aside, even with the slow start, I expected a much faster melt off this year than what has happened (so far).  

When the melt crossed and then uncrossed the 2007 record decline, I added a few more bookmarks to my &quot;Arctic&quot; folder on my browser&#039;s bookmark bar that I check daily.  While I would value the following being confirmed or refuted, it looks to me like the cloud cover has increased, that the massive quantity of single year ice may be behaving differently, and over the last two weeks or so, the jet stream has gone nuts.  

With a recent study suggesting that an increase in low clouds are a positive feedback (and I can not tell whether the clouds I am seeing are high or low clouds), the slower rate has puzzled me.  The microwave data incorporated into  the NSIDC report for June confirmed the visuals I have been following of the Beauford Sea I look at (and my speculation that all the 1st year ice may be leading to different melt dynamics stems from).  Whatever, there are large areas in the Beauford Sea that have been thinning out and, like the Laptev Sea, seem to be poised to add (but for cloud cover and reorganizing air currents at 300 mb), quickly and extensively, to the ice extent decline.  The craziness of the jet stream (besides giving the northeast easterlies) has led to rapid declines I&#039;ve been anticipating in the extent in Hudson Bay and the Baffin Sea the last couple of days.

Anyway, I am not sure the bottom line is that it is too early to tell.  I think the climate in the Arctic, as predicted, is changing first/the most.  If I were a betting person, the 50/50 chance for an ice free North Pole (as in physical location) Serreze got into trouble talking about last year is a statement he will be vindicated on and is still a good bet  The high that is mentioned, if it hangs in there, the bet is a no brainer.  If whatever is happening at 300 mb continues as it has been, the northwest passage will open way ahead of last year . . . and the slugs will do well in my garden in NY with all the rain we will continue to getting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Serreze and company have been very disciplined to limit what they post each month to facts.  While such is good science, it is less than informative relative to the &#8220;smack-down&#8221; affect of what can pass as being a &#8220;good&#8221; blog writing style/content. That aside, even with the slow start, I expected a much faster melt off this year than what has happened (so far).  </p>
<p>When the melt crossed and then uncrossed the 2007 record decline, I added a few more bookmarks to my &#8220;Arctic&#8221; folder on my browser&#8217;s bookmark bar that I check daily.  While I would value the following being confirmed or refuted, it looks to me like the cloud cover has increased, that the massive quantity of single year ice may be behaving differently, and over the last two weeks or so, the jet stream has gone nuts.  </p>
<p>With a recent study suggesting that an increase in low clouds are a positive feedback (and I can not tell whether the clouds I am seeing are high or low clouds), the slower rate has puzzled me.  The microwave data incorporated into  the NSIDC report for June confirmed the visuals I have been following of the Beauford Sea I look at (and my speculation that all the 1st year ice may be leading to different melt dynamics stems from).  Whatever, there are large areas in the Beauford Sea that have been thinning out and, like the Laptev Sea, seem to be poised to add (but for cloud cover and reorganizing air currents at 300 mb), quickly and extensively, to the ice extent decline.  The craziness of the jet stream (besides giving the northeast easterlies) has led to rapid declines I&#8217;ve been anticipating in the extent in Hudson Bay and the Baffin Sea the last couple of days.</p>
<p>Anyway, I am not sure the bottom line is that it is too early to tell.  I think the climate in the Arctic, as predicted, is changing first/the most.  If I were a betting person, the 50/50 chance for an ice free North Pole (as in physical location) Serreze got into trouble talking about last year is a statement he will be vindicated on and is still a good bet  The high that is mentioned, if it hangs in there, the bet is a no brainer.  If whatever is happening at 300 mb continues as it has been, the northwest passage will open way ahead of last year . . . and the slugs will do well in my garden in NY with all the rain we will continue to getting.</p>
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		<title>By: Wonhyo</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/07/nsidc-national-snow-and-ice-data-center-arctic-ice-melt-area-volume/#comment-96973</link>
		<dc:creator>Wonhyo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8838#comment-96973</guid>
		<description>The deniers might point to the graph and say June sea ice extent has been increasing since the last one and three years.  A neutral party might say June sea ice extent has declined gradually by 8% since 1979.  A true climate scientist would ask to see a plot of see ice volume over the same time period.

I agree with Paulm&#039;s first comment: It&#039;s dangerous to try to negotiate with natural limits.  The political process (including Waxman-Markey) threatens to produce too little, too late, as long as we approach climate change with political motivations.

As a society, we must recognize the fundamental needs of climate mitigation and adapt the political process to meet those needs, not vice versa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The deniers might point to the graph and say June sea ice extent has been increasing since the last one and three years.  A neutral party might say June sea ice extent has declined gradually by 8% since 1979.  A true climate scientist would ask to see a plot of see ice volume over the same time period.</p>
<p>I agree with Paulm&#8217;s first comment: It&#8217;s dangerous to try to negotiate with natural limits.  The political process (including Waxman-Markey) threatens to produce too little, too late, as long as we approach climate change with political motivations.</p>
<p>As a society, we must recognize the fundamental needs of climate mitigation and adapt the political process to meet those needs, not vice versa.</p>
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		<title>By: dhogaza</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/07/nsidc-national-snow-and-ice-data-center-arctic-ice-melt-area-volume/#comment-96890</link>
		<dc:creator>dhogaza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 18:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8838#comment-96890</guid>
		<description>Richard Pauli:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seasonal.extent.1900-2007.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This graph from cryosphere today shows seasonal (three-month) data, and you can see that winter extent is declining more slowly than the summer minimum&lt;/a&gt;.  When you consider that the sea freezes right up to land in much of the arctic every year, you can understand why - it will take a vast amount of warming for there to be open water next to much of the northern coasts of eurasia and north america.  We&#039;re not close to that, yet.  Thus the emphasis in summer minimum (you may&#039;ve already known this, if so, my apologies).

&lt;a href=&quot;http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/current.area.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This one, also from cryosphere today, shows the seasonal variation from 1979, so by comparing the bottom of each cycle you can get a sense of the trend in minimum extent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Pauli:</p>
<p><a href="http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seasonal.extent.1900-2007.jpg" rel="nofollow">This graph from cryosphere today shows seasonal (three-month) data, and you can see that winter extent is declining more slowly than the summer minimum</a>.  When you consider that the sea freezes right up to land in much of the arctic every year, you can understand why &#8211; it will take a vast amount of warming for there to be open water next to much of the northern coasts of eurasia and north america.  We&#8217;re not close to that, yet.  Thus the emphasis in summer minimum (you may&#8217;ve already known this, if so, my apologies).</p>
<p><a href="http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/current.area.jpg" rel="nofollow">This one, also from cryosphere today, shows the seasonal variation from 1979, so by comparing the bottom of each cycle you can get a sense of the trend in minimum extent.</a></p>
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		<title>By: paulm</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/07/nsidc-national-snow-and-ice-data-center-arctic-ice-melt-area-volume/#comment-96855</link>
		<dc:creator>paulm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8838#comment-96855</guid>
		<description>World&#039;s rich targeted in new model for carbon cuts
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/07/07/carbon.emissions.allocation/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>World&#8217;s rich targeted in new model for carbon cuts<br />
<a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/07/07/carbon.emissions.allocation/" rel="nofollow">http://edition.cnn.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2009/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>TECH/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>science/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>07/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>07/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>carbon.emissions.allocation/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span></a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard Pauli</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/07/nsidc-national-snow-and-ice-data-center-arctic-ice-melt-area-volume/#comment-96841</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Pauli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8838#comment-96841</guid>
		<description>Is there a single chart that combines data from a few more years, shows simple extent coverage, marks the nadir for each year, and shows ice volume?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there a single chart that combines data from a few more years, shows simple extent coverage, marks the nadir for each year, and shows ice volume?</p>
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		<title>By: paulm</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/07/nsidc-national-snow-and-ice-data-center-arctic-ice-melt-area-volume/#comment-96840</link>
		<dc:creator>paulm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=8838#comment-96840</guid>
		<description>&#039;The Greenland Ice Sheet Is an Awakening Giant&#039;
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,634629,00.html

...we are in a better position right now. New estimates that we are about to finalize suggest a potential sea-level rise from the Greenland ice sheet that could be 0.35 meters (14 inches) over the next century.
...
As a scientist it is, nevertheless, interesting to see that the politicians are trying to figure out what would be feasible politically. Currently, trying to cap global warming at two degrees is something that they can seemingly sell to the public. But as a scientist I have to really stress that two degrees is an absolute maximum. It is not something to be negotiated, like 2.7 or 2.5 degrees. We are at the very maximum already, I believe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;The Greenland Ice Sheet Is an Awakening Giant&#8217;<br />
<a href="http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,634629,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.spiegel.de/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>international/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>world/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>0,1518,634629,00.html</a></p>
<p>&#8230;we are in a better position right now. New estimates that we are about to finalize suggest a potential sea-level rise from the Greenland ice sheet that could be 0.35 meters (14 inches) over the next century.<br />
&#8230;<br />
As a scientist it is, nevertheless, interesting to see that the politicians are trying to figure out what would be feasible politically. Currently, trying to cap global warming at two degrees is something that they can seemingly sell to the public. But as a scientist I have to really stress that two degrees is an absolute maximum. It is not something to be negotiated, like 2.7 or 2.5 degrees. We are at the very maximum already, I believe.</p>
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