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	<title>Comments on: The NY Times gets it wrong, again!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/16/copenhagen-g-8-climate-target/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/16/copenhagen-g-8-climate-target/</link>
	<description>The Latest on Climate Science, Solutions, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: grasslandgal</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/16/copenhagen-g-8-climate-target/#comment-99549</link>
		<dc:creator>grasslandgal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 08:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9146#comment-99549</guid>
		<description>The final statement I read DID have the 2 degree aspirational goal in it.....&quot; We recognize the scientific view that the increase in global average temperature above pre-industrial levels ought not to exceed 2 degrees C.&quot;

This from: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Declaration-of-the-Leaders-the-Major-Economies-Forum-on-Energy-and-Climate/  dated July 9, 2009.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The final statement I read DID have the 2 degree aspirational goal in it&#8230;..&#8221; We recognize the scientific view that the increase in global average temperature above pre-industrial levels ought not to exceed 2 degrees C.&#8221;</p>
<p>This from: <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Declaration-of-the-Leaders-the-Major-Economies-Forum-on-Energy-and-Climate/" rel="nofollow">http://www.whitehouse.gov/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>the_press_office/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>Declaration-of-the-Leaders-the-Major-Economies-Forum-on-Energy-and-Climate/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span></a>  dated July 9, 2009.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Levangie</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/16/copenhagen-g-8-climate-target/#comment-99333</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Levangie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9146#comment-99333</guid>
		<description>Hey Gary:

I&#039;ll see your cool summer in the US, and raise you a heat wave across India and Europe.

It&#039;s called global warming (and I was going to call you dumb a$$ but I figured it was against Joe&#039;s rules).

See the story he just posted here.

http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/16/noaa-ncdc-second-hottest-june-on-record-el-nino-hasnt-even-kicked-into-high-gear-yet/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Gary:</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll see your cool summer in the US, and raise you a heat wave across India and Europe.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s called global warming (and I was going to call you dumb a$$ but I figured it was against Joe&#8217;s rules).</p>
<p>See the story he just posted here.</p>
<p><a href="http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/16/noaa-ncdc-second-hottest-june-on-record-el-nino-hasnt-even-kicked-into-high-gear-yet/" rel="nofollow">http://climateprogress.org/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2009/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>07/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>16/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>noaa-ncdc-second-hottest-june-on-record-el-nino-hasnt-even-kicked-into-high-gear-yet/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span></a></p>
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		<title>By: John Hollenberg</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/16/copenhagen-g-8-climate-target/#comment-99332</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hollenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9146#comment-99332</guid>
		<description>Gary,

I hope this is a joke, since Joe has just published the report that June is the second hottest on record GLOBALLY:

http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/16/noaa-ncdc-second-hottest-june-on-record-el-nino-hasnt-even-kicked-into-high-gear-yet/

Otherwise, you really don&#039;t understand the meaning of GLOBAL warming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary,</p>
<p>I hope this is a joke, since Joe has just published the report that June is the second hottest on record GLOBALLY:</p>
<p><a href="http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/16/noaa-ncdc-second-hottest-june-on-record-el-nino-hasnt-even-kicked-into-high-gear-yet/" rel="nofollow">http://climateprogress.org/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2009/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>07/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>16/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>noaa-ncdc-second-hottest-june-on-record-el-nino-hasnt-even-kicked-into-high-gear-yet/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span></a></p>
<p>Otherwise, you really don&#8217;t understand the meaning of GLOBAL warming.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Thompson</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/16/copenhagen-g-8-climate-target/#comment-99329</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 20:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9146#comment-99329</guid>
		<description>The temperature has not hit 85 degrees this year in all of June.  The New York times can proudly write that our goals in lower temps have been attained. It sure wasn&#039;t carbon tax that caused the cool season.

[&lt;em&gt;JR:  Wow a very tiny part of the Earth was slightly cool for 30 days -- you make an impressive argument for screwing the next 50 generations!&lt;/em&gt;]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The temperature has not hit 85 degrees this year in all of June.  The New York times can proudly write that our goals in lower temps have been attained. It sure wasn&#8217;t carbon tax that caused the cool season.</p>
<p>[<em>JR:  Wow a very tiny part of the Earth was slightly cool for 30 days -- you make an impressive argument for screwing the next 50 generations!</em>]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Levangie</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/16/copenhagen-g-8-climate-target/#comment-99328</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Levangie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 20:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9146#comment-99328</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t say that I agree either. I was pleased by even the modest declaration, even though it came with no mid-term goals.

But less than 24 hours after the declaration, both Canada and Russia broke ranks and said they have no need to make deeper emission cuts, and that the goal is aspirational. (Canada is promising to cut emissions by 60% by 2050, with a 2006 baseline (the baseline meaning that Canada will miss its modest Kyoto target by 30+%).

(I wrote about it here)

http://one-blue-marble.com/blog/2009/07/09/canada-and-russia-climate-bullies-bffs/

I&#039;m embarrassed to be Canadian with Stephen Harper in power. The NGO&#039;s are calling Canada a climate bully... I sure as hell wish a few world leaders would, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t say that I agree either. I was pleased by even the modest declaration, even though it came with no mid-term goals.</p>
<p>But less than 24 hours after the declaration, both Canada and Russia broke ranks and said they have no need to make deeper emission cuts, and that the goal is aspirational. (Canada is promising to cut emissions by 60% by 2050, with a 2006 baseline (the baseline meaning that Canada will miss its modest Kyoto target by 30+%).</p>
<p>(I wrote about it here)</p>
<p><a href="http://one-blue-marble.com/blog/2009/07/09/canada-and-russia-climate-bullies-bffs/" rel="nofollow">http://one-blue-marble.com/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>blog/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>2009/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>07/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>09/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span>canada-and-russia-climate-bullies-bffs/<span style="font-size: 1px;"> </span></a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m embarrassed to be Canadian with Stephen Harper in power. The NGO&#8217;s are calling Canada a climate bully&#8230; I sure as hell wish a few world leaders would, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Leonard</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/16/copenhagen-g-8-climate-target/#comment-99318</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Leonard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 20:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9146#comment-99318</guid>
		<description>While I agree, the statement regarding a 2 degree commitment is a good step forward - you state that industrial nations agreed in principle to emissions reductions agreements of &quot;80% by 2050&quot;. But you failed to mention the fact that no baseline year was agreed to. In fact, the language used by the G8 communique was &quot;We also support a goal of developed countries reducing emissions of greenhouse gases in aggregate by 80 per cent or more by 2050 compared to 1990 or more recent years&quot;

We all know the IPCC targets are based off of 1990 emissions levels, whereas the US has conveniently pushed to use more relaxed 2005 levels - 23% higher than the 1990 baseline domestically. What happened to Obama&#039;s promise of restoring science to the White House, rather than using slick rhetoric? Technically speaking - the G8 &quot;agreement&quot; allows them to use whatever baselines they want. 1990, 2005, 2010? We&#039;ve seen countries exploit every loophole they can on this issue - and this is a major one.

We simply cannot continue accepting one small step after another. We all know the clock is ticking scientifically and politically. Joe, you seem to be regularly dismissing efforts that you see as being outside of the current &quot;political reality&quot; - but the fact is that the current political reality is failing us, and will continue to do so unless we change it. Any overview of the history of social change will show that if our movements are always willing to accept the current political reality, very little will ever change.

-Matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree, the statement regarding a 2 degree commitment is a good step forward &#8211; you state that industrial nations agreed in principle to emissions reductions agreements of &#8220;80% by 2050&#8243;. But you failed to mention the fact that no baseline year was agreed to. In fact, the language used by the G8 communique was &#8220;We also support a goal of developed countries reducing emissions of greenhouse gases in aggregate by 80 per cent or more by 2050 compared to 1990 or more recent years&#8221;</p>
<p>We all know the IPCC targets are based off of 1990 emissions levels, whereas the US has conveniently pushed to use more relaxed 2005 levels &#8211; 23% higher than the 1990 baseline domestically. What happened to Obama&#8217;s promise of restoring science to the White House, rather than using slick rhetoric? Technically speaking &#8211; the G8 &#8220;agreement&#8221; allows them to use whatever baselines they want. 1990, 2005, 2010? We&#8217;ve seen countries exploit every loophole they can on this issue &#8211; and this is a major one.</p>
<p>We simply cannot continue accepting one small step after another. We all know the clock is ticking scientifically and politically. Joe, you seem to be regularly dismissing efforts that you see as being outside of the current &#8220;political reality&#8221; &#8211; but the fact is that the current political reality is failing us, and will continue to do so unless we change it. Any overview of the history of social change will show that if our movements are always willing to accept the current political reality, very little will ever change.</p>
<p>-Matt</p>
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		<title>By: Tim DeChristopher</title>
		<link>http://climateprogress.org/2009/07/16/copenhagen-g-8-climate-target/#comment-99302</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim DeChristopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climateprogress.org/?p=9146#comment-99302</guid>
		<description>&quot;President Barack Obama prudently hedged on setting a 2020 emissions target.&quot;

So, the good news is that Obama isn&#039;t going to put pressure on Congress to pass meaningful legislation with strong short term targets?  What&#039;s the bad news?

Why is there such a strong effort to convince us that our elected officials are doing great?  Until they are doing enough to actually avoid catastrophic tipping points, our job is to keep pressuring them and letting them know that we&#039;re not happy.  Even if they really do have our best interests in mind, they need us to keep showing our dissatisfaction with their half-measures.  Our job is to be tough on them, and it&#039;s a shame that the New York Times is doing that job better than CAP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;President Barack Obama prudently hedged on setting a 2020 emissions target.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, the good news is that Obama isn&#8217;t going to put pressure on Congress to pass meaningful legislation with strong short term targets?  What&#8217;s the bad news?</p>
<p>Why is there such a strong effort to convince us that our elected officials are doing great?  Until they are doing enough to actually avoid catastrophic tipping points, our job is to keep pressuring them and letting them know that we&#8217;re not happy.  Even if they really do have our best interests in mind, they need us to keep showing our dissatisfaction with their half-measures.  Our job is to be tough on them, and it&#8217;s a shame that the New York Times is doing that job better than CAP.</p>
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